OVAS

OVAS Club Forums => General OVAS Inquiries => Topic started by: Jody on February 14, 2017, 09:28:52 PM

Title: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 14, 2017, 09:28:52 PM
Hi everyone,

    This is just me thinking out loud, after a day of chit chatting about fish clubs, about ways to maybe improve the club.
Some great ideas that could work for us. We have a couple of months before elections, so some of these things would need to be decided before then.

    I had the idea of maybe streamlining the executive committee.
Currently there are 12+1 positions between officers, executive committee and standing committee +1 past president. While the club had 70 or more members, this made sense, but currently we have only about 20-30 active.  I am talking members who attend regularly or are active in the club, not including members who purchase only for discounts or are only active on the forums (no offense meant to either).
    Obviously, with 3 vacant positions, and several people doing multiple people, the club doesn't currently have the numbers to support such a committee.
    To me, several positions are overlapping anyways. My suggestion would be the following.
Dissolving the program director, online presence, sponsorship and refreshment chairs.
Those positions are mostly empty anyways, and really, President and VP are responsible for the programming anyways, and as officers of the club, are in the best position to approach sponsors.  Refreshments could easily be brought by one of them as well.
   Online presence, to me, is more or less tied into the webmaster position anyways.
  Those are the easiest ones to get rid of, which would bring us down to 8, which is still a third or quarter of the actives, so still on the high side.
   The ones I would say definitely keep are the 4 officers, President, VP, Secretary and Treasurer, plus of course the Webmaster.
    Does it make sense to have the Treasurer re-absorb the membership chair? Certainly.
Auction chair is a nice to have, as it is a big job on the auction days, and is good to have someone to concentrate on it.
The last one, librarian, is a tricky one. Part of me says books are great. But the other part says, I haven't seen a single book at the club for the last 2 years, much less the library. I am not sure how often anyone requests books, but if it isn't often, would it make sense just to dissolve the position entirely, and sell the library off at the auction?

   The other thing that we talked about was how the Montreal club does sponsorship.
Rather than say $200 (just using this number as a pulled out of a hat number, not the actual value used) to be a sponsor for the year, they ask for a donation, in gift cards, of $200-400 a year from the stores, depending on how much advertising space they want in their newsletter.
Obviously, we don't have a newsletter, so it is hard to sell it as that, but the idea of gift card vs cash is a great idea. For a couple of reasons.
1. They are great items for door prizes, and means that the club doesn't have to pay for them at each meeting.
2.  They are great for the stores, because the winners of them will have to go into the stores to use them, and will likely spend more than the value anyways.
3. $200 in gift cards, value-wise to a store, is probably only worth about $100-$120 in products, so it is a savings for them as well.

Again, just thinking out loud.
If anyone has any thoughts, or anything to add, please feel free to do so.

Jody

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: limed on February 15, 2017, 05:27:42 AM
  Thinking positive, if you look closely on who is doing the jobs ,it's hard to get anything
big started without help. I am hoping people will step up this year to take these exec position.
If someone want my position you are welcome to have it (membership Chair), I think this
go for any position. We will have a big change this year as some of the exec will be leaving.
  So think about stepping into the exec role, you are welcome with open arms. Just ask.
We would not be able to do any of this without all the other members helping out in the past/future.
 
Thanks
Ed
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 15, 2017, 07:59:47 AM
I agree,  it is important that club members step up.
When I joined the  club many years ago, there the 4 exec positions plus a librarian and a bowl show  organizer. A webmaster/auction chair was added a few years later.
I am just thinking that right now half the active members of the club would have to be on the committee to fill each position. Doesn't it make sense to look at reducing them ?
  I haven't fully committed to the idea,  but I may run for something for next season..not sure what though.

Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 15, 2017, 09:05:38 AM
Jody, thank you for starting this discussion, i`m hoping it stays objective and productive.
I also want to emphasize this discussion should not been seen as critical to any  person or group.
I share a lot of your ideas, including the shrinking of the executive board but would think the membership chair should retained as a individual chair, since it`s vital to rebuilding the club to a better state.
The elections for the last few years have become somewhat of  an amusing event, simply because for whatever reason our core membership are not motivated to step up and help out, as a result the few dedicated members who have helped in previous years are left with some despair that the club will fold and as such will volunteer to stay even though their personal life dictates that they can`t be fully committed, and the truth is i applaud and take my hat off to you guys.
I guess what i`m appealing to is for some newer, fresher minds to step up and get involved, they are still a few of us old timers that are willing to help you out as the need arises.
A few suggestion as i see it, for clarity they may not be ideal but worth thinking of .
A serious effort should be made to determine what is the best day of the week to have our club meeting, yes it`s come up time and again, but lets here from the ones that are unable to attend  - is it the day of the week, is it the location, is it the time, what structure should the meeting take etc.
Our forum, to me this is the gateway to the club and attracting membership, this gateway needs to find ways of attracting membership to the club.
One thing i tried in the past when i did the membership was to send via PM, a short simple welcome message to the forum and including the fact the the forum is a media extension of the club - membership helps  the forum and club to have the ability to do bigger and better things for the hobby and it`s members.
I found this worked some what but it stopped when i vacated that chair.
The club needs to have a stronger relationship with it`s sponsors and corporate friends.
Lets try and work towards keeping a long standing club alive and thriving, i will say this from personal experience, we can sit in front of a computer and participate in 100 forums, but nothing beats the good old  personal social interaction.
Had it not for this club, my passion for the hobby would have long dwindled .
Regards
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: neon1423 on February 16, 2017, 01:16:44 AM
I joined the forum 2 years ago and finally bought a membership this year along with my father. I've attended the giant auction and was a seller at the garage sale. I've been to a few plantaholics meetings but have never managed to make it to a general meeting. The main problem for me is that they are always (to my knowledge, and what I've been able to find from old forum topics) on a Monday evening. There have been a bunch of meetings I really wanted to attend but because of my work schedule I wasn't able to attend. I only have 1 Monday evening off a month making Monday meetings almost impossible to attend.

As for the exec, I spent the last 15 minutes looking for a list of the exec and what their job descriptions are, and unless I'm blind I was only able to find a list of who holds what position. If we want people to volunteer for positions we should make it very very easy to find a description of what that job entails. Again ignore all this is I'm just blind and missed it.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: lucius on February 16, 2017, 08:15:12 AM
Here's a post from last year.

http://ovas.ca/forum/index.php?topic=59728.0
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: francois on February 16, 2017, 11:53:00 AM
Hi OVAS friends,

First, I am not OVAS member, so take my words as you want. There was some comparison done with the Montreal's club, I am at the executive from SAM, been in charge of public relation and in charge of petshop partnership.

SAM has an executive compose of 9 people: 5 are elected for two years (alternatively 3 and 2 each year) and 4 are volunteers. Odd numbers are easier when it is time for decision vote. Number of executive should not be a problem as it split the work to do.

Sponsorship or partnership as you want to call it. Petshops give us gift card, this is good as we do have other source of cash. Clubs need cash to pay for room rental, item for tombola, and door price... We generate our cash with 2 big annual auction (one at fall one at spring), membership, plus each month we have our meeting with door price (gift from the club), tombola ticket (ticket sell), and small auction (usually we reach between 30-100 items each month, club retain a quote on those sell). At the end of the year, our monthly meeting may possibly generate as much as a third big auction. I do not have the exact numbers with me.

Everything works here because we are near 80 members (including familial and individual membership), with near 50-60 people coming to each meeting. It is difficult to figure out why there are so many people as members. Maybe it is impossible to know as each one as his own reason. Each club is doing its best to survive and right now SAM is in good shape hopefully for another long time.

On a more personal note. All SAM executive is doing a great job ( I am part of it so I can not say else  :P ), in fact the executive is here just to execute what members want. If members do not get involve even a little, there could be some kind of lassitude which will be detrimental to the club. It is up to everybody in the club to recruit new members, advertize for club activities, participate on the forum, bring items to monthly or annual auction, etc, etc... If there is no will from your members, it will be a very difficult task.

Your club is what you, the members want it to be.

You have a great and well maintain forum, all of you I know are great people, I am sure you all want the best for your club.
Again I am not part of your club, so just take these words as they are, with no mean to tell you want to do or not to do. Each club should do the way they think it is the most appropriate.
Francois
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 16, 2017, 05:39:42 PM
Francois  for me your post is very welcome, always good to know how other clubs are doing it.
I`m always intrigued that some active/vibrant clubs don`t have a forum or a non active forum.
Sam and DRAS clubs readily come to mind.
Regards
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: lucius on February 16, 2017, 08:10:29 PM
Thinking out loud....if some other clubs don't have forums and have a large member base, then this could mean that their monthly meetings and events are the only times they can communicate and socialize with each other easily.  This could explain the higher turn out at their meetings.

Without going into specific numbers, it takes a bit of coin to keep the site/forum hosted and running so OVAS needs cash for this as well.

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 16, 2017, 11:42:58 PM
Lucius, I agree that the forum itself could be taking away participation/attendance at the meetings. Some people may feel that the online interaction is just as good going to the meeting.
For me, the social aspect is great, and I have met some great people over the years, and enjoy just visiting with people that are also enthusiastic about the same hobby.

My thought is that this is the time for us to start discussing and brainstorming ideas for the club, to encourage others to actively join.


Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: limed on February 17, 2017, 05:25:05 AM
  Yes, it we may get more people to the meetings, but the web is a tool to make us
seen to the world. We do get people from Kingston, Quebec buying memberships that don't
come to the meeting. The web connection is a tool that brings more people to see whats happening
and may or may not get involved. We need to take 1 step at a time, maybe to put back the mini auctions
back in , then look at the date we hold the meetings. It doesn't matter what day we make the meetings, there
will be someone not agreeing to that day.   Technology is here, use it. Everything cost money.

Ed
 
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 17, 2017, 07:06:14 AM
Don't get my comments wrong, I think that the forum is great and am in no way saying get rid of it. It is a great tool to expand the reach of the club.
Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 17, 2017, 09:15:38 AM
Quote from: lucius on February 16, 2017, 08:10:29 PM
Thinking out loud....if some other clubs don't have forums and have a large member base, then this could mean that their monthly meetings and events are the only times they can communicate and socialize with each other easily.  This could explain the higher turn out at their meetings.

Without going into specific numbers, it takes a bit of coin to keep the site/forum hosted and running so OVAS needs cash for this as well.


I really don`t think that has major impact.
If we take the time to look at the 2 clubs ii mention ( they are several others), i`m certain the programs and general structure  of their events  have more of an impact on their meeting success, in speaking to one club member outside of OVAS, their club has some 80 members and enjoy a high percentage of that membership attending meetings.
Again , these are not comments to point fingers or be negative to the exec. as i said before i applaud the few on the exec. who go that extra mile to keep us floating.
Regards
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: lucius on February 17, 2017, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: charlie on February 17, 2017, 09:15:38 AM
I really don`t think that has major impact.
If we take the time to look at the 2 clubs ii mention ( they are several others), i`m certain the programs and general structure  of their events  have more of an impact on their meeting success, in speaking to one club member outside of OVAS, their club has some 80 members and enjoy a high percentage of that membership attending meetings.
Again , these are not comments to point fingers or be negative to the exec. as i said before i applaud the few on the exec. who go that extra mile to keep us floating.
Regards

I think it has some impact.  With the Classifieds section for example, forum users can easily post their items for sale online, make arrangements for pick up via PM's and then have them picked up at their homes.  No need to attend a meeting for this to sell really.  Ever notice how at our meetings whenever someone has something to sell, it's like vultures circling?  ;D

If François can possibly comment on how many of their members bring items for sale each month?  And do they bring a lot of items?
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 17, 2017, 11:28:31 AM
[quoteI really don`t think that has major impact.][/quote]
Brian as i said it`s not a major impact , not saying it does not.
It`s the overall/Bigger picture of the meetings that plays the major response
In the GTA area for example they have a few non affiliated classifieds  sites, yet still DRAS is still doing well at meetings.
People swarming as you call it at our 2 vendors at the meetings is not a good measuring tool, have a chat with Heinz what he has to sell those plants for Just not to have to take them home.
I`m all for brining back the monthly auctions, lets see it that helps, my gut instinct say`s it wont in ayt significant way for a few  reasons - Think about it - what is going to entice me to leave my warm home on X night to attend a meeting to sell XYZ when there is a good chance the prices will be low and have to pay a part of that to club, when i can stay home with family etc. post it on OVAS a targeted audience, Kijiji ,Used Ottawa and do so at me own leisure etc.
There has to be passion, enthusiasm in the club and it`s events to entice folks, which is even that harder in Ottawa.
I know what it`s like to run a club with 2 or maybe 3 active executives it leads to burn out faster than you think, more so for the folks that have families/partners.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: lucius on February 17, 2017, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: charlie on February 17, 2017, 11:28:31 AM
I know what it`s like to run a club with 2 or maybe 3 active executives it leads to burn out faster than you think, more so for the folks that have families/partners.

Agreed, this is why I left my previous hobby/club and took up fish keeping instead.  And why I'm very, very, very reluctant to take on an executive role in OVAS.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 17, 2017, 01:07:04 PM
If we are thinking of bringing back the mini auction I would recommend putting a minimum bid of $2 with a 25% cut to the club. Also if we were to put something like a max of 3 not sold items, then a fee to the club for each one,  to avoid lots of junk being brought in.

Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: barefoot_golfer on February 18, 2017, 09:26:03 AM
Everyone has raised excellent points and repeated key needs.    I've been a member of OVAS for a few years and more so classed as a creeper (get to the creeper term later)   OVAS greatest asset is its core members/executive knowledge base in the various disciplines.   Understanding how other organizations runs is an important foundation (Franc. great input).    Using the KIS principal is critical to low maintenance/repetitive Meetings have great presentations, keep it at the same place, same time, same fish channel and they should come,  Auctions spring & fall have to be supported by LFS and advertised 3D ways.    The website is the key to growing the business globally with the support of our LFS.   Website Classified is OVAS freeware to entry level users or shoppers so access for everyone but interaction to only members.    Educating LPS employees is the key to preaching the OVAS word!   Pictures are worth a thousand words so update/give members easy access to upload if it isn't happening or members let's get into selfie mode!   Now from my personal observation and asked several LFS employees from 3-4 LFS very few know of OVAS, I never get email or PM on renewal, news letters, notice of auctions & meetings so how do I know when their happening.    I referred to myself as creeper because there's no invite to OVAS, Having met a few of you good souls, I'm just curious what topics are lighting up, who is selling what and any new pics!     I thank each and everyone of the executives for their past & present services to OVAS as its all of you that make it better.          Ron  just looking into the fish bowl from outside! 
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: limmer on February 18, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
I think there are many good points here.
We used to mass email in the past but for some reason it stopped.
Maybe website restrictions or past exec decided to remove it or some other problem.
Most meeting and activites are usually posted on the website.
Sometimes a bit slow due to problems getting the Exec together.

What we need is more volunteers and people stepping up to become Execs.
We need people on the Exec with lots of energy and fresh ideas.
I know that many of the Exec don't have a lot of time to handle their jobs (we already do more then what our jobs define).

Not to rile anyone but I think there are 2 types of OVAS Members.
One is a paid member and the other is just a member of the website.
The paid members help support the club and website and their activities.

Please become involved.
Your participation is what defines the club.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 18, 2017, 04:01:12 PM
Good points Peter.
But most times the new four months sign on are not aware that the forum is not a free standing forum but a media outlet for the club, they are not aware of club.
It's why I suggested that a welcome  message is sent on approval , with the information.
Regards
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 20, 2017, 10:40:22 PM
I absolutely agree that getting the word out is an important key to bringing people out to the club, and a personal touch certainly would help.
In my years of working at Big Al's, I have seen no other employee regularly attend meetings, and for sure most don't even know that the club exists. I am working on figuring out a Win-Win relationship between the stores and OVAS.
Of course mail outs, newsletters etc are a great thing, but they also involve getting more people actively involved to help out with things.
Website members are good, but it is the paid ones, who take their time to come out to the meetings regularly, who will make a difference in the club. Obviously, we would love to get more people out to the meetings, and get more of them helping out.

Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: ajm1961 on February 21, 2017, 10:39:01 AM
Couldn't we put up a "permanent" poster in each of our sponsor's store(s) that advertises OVAS? We could then send them the monthly meeting information (via email or mail) to tack on to the poster. At least we would get exposure to our meetings.
I've seen such a poster in Montreal stores for the SAM.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 21, 2017, 11:03:55 AM
ajm1961  This idea was put forth to the executive at the beginning of the season (for a slightly reduced rate, which would have been covered by about 4 new members). I found out last week,  that the idea was rejected. I offered to do the work to implement and keep it updated at the store level, but it did not go anywhere.

Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: exv152 on February 21, 2017, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: Jody on February 21, 2017, 11:03:55 AM
I found out last week,  that the idea was rejected. I offered to do the work to implement and keep it updated at the store level, but it did not go anywhere.

Jody

I'm surprised by this. I thought this came from the previous franchise owners but apparently not. Is it possible they see OVAS as competition?
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 21, 2017, 01:14:27 PM
Quote from: exv152 on February 21, 2017, 12:01:56 PM
I'm surprised by this. I thought this came from the previous franchise owners but apparently not. Is it possible they see OVAS as competition?
Eric , from my understanding of Jody`s post, it was not Big Al`s he is talking about.
I`m getting the impression , that whatever Jody/Big Al`s was proposing was rejected by OVAS.
Regards
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: exv152 on February 21, 2017, 02:03:28 PM
Quote from: charlie on February 21, 2017, 01:14:27 PM
Eric , from my understanding of Jody`s post, it was not Big Al`s he is talking about.
I`m getting the impression , that whatever Jody/Big Al`s was proposing was rejected by OVAS.
Regards

Ahh. I see. Thanks for the clarification Errol. I assumed it was the other way around based on past experience. Maybe someone from the executive can explain why this was rejected at the club level? Because honestly, that sounds like a great idea.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 21, 2017, 02:27:06 PM
A b it off topic.
I can`t say i`m surprised, but this thread which is so significant to the club`s well being is so poorly subscribed it makes wonder if in the eyes of the members that log into the forum don`t think nothing needs to be addressed.
Tell us what your thoughts are?, feedback and input can be a good thing, we are not bashing anyone or group.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Al on February 21, 2017, 03:16:35 PM
Some thoughts. Agreed on the importance of getting the message out. I'm shocked and then again maybe I'm not - that employees at LFS wouldn't know about OVAS. Or that people visiting the website have some kind of notion that they are members of something???
I mentioned to a couple members the other day I thought that maybe giving out 1/2 price memberships at participating dealers?? or free 6 month memberships ?? to people who are buying new aquarium setups/etc at a LFS - set up some parameters for qualifying. Have a welcome package that gets given out at the store to these new people - coming into the hobby? a 10% off coupon in the welcome booklet/folder/piece of paper/fish card and envelope for a purchase that is surely going to be made in the next few weeks after someone is buying a new set-up. I forgot this, I need this, etc. Have some OVAS badges that employees can wear in the store "Ask me about OVAS " - run it for a couple of months and measure results. Or a card at the cash "Ask me about OVAS" "Ask me about fish school" Getting new people involved and them getting the MTS disease - More Tanks Syndrome - from attending meetings only means more business at the LFS. What about an OVAS plaque (simple, cheap) to preferred stores that support us, it looks like some kind of endorsement of the store from the local club - call it an OVAS fish partner associate or some fancy name. It goes somewhere prominent in the store.
The club needs the fish stores support and they need/would benefit from a better/larger OVAS - otherwise, the future will not be bright for their fish category - or their store's survival, period, if they have not branched out to include other pet categories. Can we meet with store owners/managers - have a sit down, what do they think? Have a predetermined questionnaire printed so whoever is doing the fact finding, we can consolidate some info from a strong base. For a store, a 10% discount as is currently give to members, only works when business is increasing - not static or slipping. It's money being given from the bottom line - and that's what it's all about at the store level. What the store manager/owner wants to know is simple "what's in it for me?" - we need to have that message clear.
What about some volunteers - there's that nasty "V" word - to do the boy scout/cadet/girl guide routine - can we setup in a couple of stores on a Saturday - or outside the store with a table and a few show-and-tell folders - and educate/sell OVAS.

Does the club have objectives for the next year? # of new memberships to shoot for? # of outside speakers? etc -  how it's going to get done - the 4 or 5 things that will drive it - otherwise, just get a bag of confetti and throw it up in the air !! What is the back-up plan?

The club also needs to explicitly lay out what the difference is between a paid member and just a web visitor - what are the upsides, benefits, payback, etc. It seems that at the present time a non-member can post ads, come to meetings, speaker engagements - there needs to be a clear benefit. To some it will be speakers and member engagement at meetings - for others BBQ's and bowling may be interesting - we have to clearly identify benefits to capture a wider base - not everyone wants another family.

Have a questionnaire for new members when they join up - what are they keeping / future interests / what do they want out of the club, etc. Have they been members of other clubs? what worked? didn't work?

What about presenting at schools? Elementary? High school? Get in front of large groups and spread the word about the benefits of the hobby?
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 21, 2017, 04:14:41 PM
Obviously getting the word out about OVAS to all the LFS employees would be a great thing, but getting them to care about OVAS is the hard part.
I have mentioned before that the relationship between OVAS and the fish stores could certainly be a win-win relationship.   The stores are willing to support the club, though maybe financially, as they are currently doing, isn't the best way.
I think once the weather is nice, the club should set up a little table in front of the store. The only problem, which is why we had to  stop it before, was the OVAS members were promoting the sale of memberships with the 10% discount in store. So a lot of people bought, just to save some cash, but few, if any, actually joined the OVAS community.  So really a short term win for the club, lose for the store. But if we figured out a good way to promote the club, one or two weekends, with a couple of volunteers at 3-4 willing stores, we could get a great boost in membership. PLUS it would give the employees of the stores a chance to learn about the club as well.
Having objectives for next year is a great idea Al. It gives the members and the exec a goal to work towards.
Even a business card with the website, on it, as well as a short detail about the club, or meeting dates for the season, which could be given out at willing stores would be good. We could put up a little Proud Supporter sign.
I also like the idea of having a new member questionaire, which could get them right into thinking of how they can become part of the club, and that the club can be tailored to it's members.
What about a bring a friend/family member to the club night? Something to encourage current members to reach out to people they know with fish tanks, and promote the club to the outside. If we added a couple of good door prizes, bonus raffle tickets could be given to people who bring a new person, maybe even an extra one for new people that join.

Jody

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 21, 2017, 04:25:21 PM
Exv152, yes the proposal was rejected by OVAS. Which is a shame, but their call to make. I am not sure why they made that decision, because the offer was designed to benefit the club as well as the store.

Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Mike L on February 21, 2017, 10:46:26 PM
  Going to be all over the place  here and hope I don't offend and sorry if I do but it seems like a chicken egg thing with regards to Lfs and ovas.
Example.  As you know I'm cichlid centric.  My observation with regards to cichlids is that only the most common  are brought in for sale  with big Al's being the main supplier.  They sell malawians on a regular basis yet I see no new cichlid members on our site.  So potential  members are out there.  They just don't know we exist. My suspicion is that all Lfs survive on the sale of one time setups and not regulars.  Seems to me that if I'm right then it would beneficial to both ovas and Lfs to work a little harder on a solution that in the end would benifit all. Maybe Jody can comment on this given that he is both a passionate hobbyist and part of our local retail.
Side note here.  Jody is the only representative from our Lfs to comment on any of this.  Input from some more of our sponsors would be a good thing.  Let's hear from you.

Second.  I don't go to meetings because it holds nothing for me. Besides  being difficult to attend for me there is no follow up because nobody on the site is a cichlid person. Sure I  can go to the occasional cichlid talk but so what.  No like minded hobbyists are out there to talk to. Ovas has no species profiles,  no plant profiles,  no info at all really.  So when a potential new member google say how to care for angelfish  or water requirements for  a given plant ovas sure doesn't show up. 

Is the club trying to be a bit for all disciplines but really being not enough for any? I  don't know.
I will say that compared to other sites the discussions on this site are informative with measured conversations.  You can go on many, many sites that are a whole lot of uninformed bravado that lend little to the hobby.  This site is not that.  Which to me is a good and worth keeping.
Having said this, the salties are gone and so are the cichlid keepers.  2 of the 3 main disciplines.  Ovas needs to decide what it is before any plan can be considered.  If it doesn't ovas will be chasing it's tail.
Mike
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 21, 2017, 11:35:28 PM
Mike L,   
I agree that most of the cichlids brought in are certainly targeting the new fish keeper, rather than the hobbyist. This is for a couple of reasons. The market in Ottawa is small, and hobbyists are the ones that are likely to deal shop for their fish.  If as a store, we have to retail a fish for $50, that you can find online for $30, where are you going to go for your group?
  There seems to be a certain point that the hobbyists begin reducing their shopping in store, so yes, a lot of our business is newer customers. The first year customers tend to be our biggest repeat customers, and spend the most. 
   Of course to me, we are certainly not really catering to some of our real cichlid / hobby customers with the fish we stock, but that is a different situation.
   With dozens of aspects to the hobby, it is hard to cater to any one group, be it cichlids, plants, saltwater etc. I think to appeal to the most people, we need to keep it a bit general, and have a variety of topics throughout the year.  Of course I like most aspects of the hobby, so I find the meetings interesting and informative, regardless of the actual topic.
   Yes, a number of the cichlid hobbyists are gone now, but there are still a few around. If you ever want to chat about cichlids, I am game for that!
   One note, if you are interested in the club, show up. I know the topics may not always be your cup of tea, but there is always neat things you can learn and maybe adapt to your hobby.  Showing up to the club helps in a couple of ways, it broadens the conversation, it encourages better speakers, and also, in some ways, it can be more welcoming to new members. OVAS may never be a big enough club to get the Ad Konings of the world, but with some participation and numbers, guys like Oliver Lucanus, Spencer Jack, Larry Johnson etc would be within reach to get out.  Instead of just local speakers, a big speaker or two a season.
    Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 22, 2017, 11:53:43 AM
Quote from: Al on February 21, 2017, 03:16:35 PM
Some thoughts. Agreed on the importance of getting the message out. I'm shocked and then again maybe I'm not - that employees at LFS wouldn't know about OVAS. Or that people visiting the website have some kind of notion that they are members of something???
I mentioned to a couple members the other day I thought that maybe giving out 1/2 price memberships at participating dealers?? or free 6 month memberships ?? to people who are buying new aquarium setups/etc at a LFS - set up some parameters for qualifying. Have a welcome package that gets given out at the store to these new people - coming into the hobby? a 10% off coupon in the welcome booklet/folder/piece of paper/fish card and envelope for a purchase that is surely going to be made in the next few weeks after someone is buying a new set-up. I forgot this, I need this, etc. Have some OVAS badges that employees can wear in the store "Ask me about OVAS " - run it for a couple of months and measure results. Or a card at the cash "Ask me about OVAS" "Ask me about fish school" Getting new people involved and them getting the MTS disease - More Tanks Syndrome - from attending meetings only means more business at the LFS. What about an OVAS plaque (simple, cheap) to preferred stores that support us, it looks like some kind of endorsement of the store from the local club - call it an OVAS fish partner associate or some fancy name. It goes somewhere prominent in the store.
The club needs the fish stores support and they need/would benefit from a better/larger OVAS - otherwise, the future will not be bright for their fish category - or their store's survival, period, if they have not branched out to include other pet categories. Can we meet with store owners/managers - have a sit down, what do they think? Have a predetermined questionnaire printed so whoever is doing the fact finding, we can consolidate some info from a strong base. For a store, a 10% discount as is currently give to members, only works when business is increasing - not static or slipping. It's money being given from the bottom line - and that's what it's all about at the store level. What the store manager/owner wants to know is simple "what's in it for me?" - we need to have that message clear.
What about some volunteers - there's that nasty "V" word - to do the boy scout/cadet/girl guide routine - can we setup in a couple of stores on a Saturday - or outside the store with a table and a few show-and-tell folders - and educate/sell OVAS.

Does the club have objectives for the next year? # of new memberships to shoot for? # of outside speakers? etc -  how it's going to get done - the 4 or 5 things that will drive it - otherwise, just get a bag of confetti and throw it up in the air !! What is the back-up plan?

Have a questionnaire for new members when they join up - what are they keeping / future interests / what do they want out of the club, etc. Have they been members of other clubs? what worked? didn't work?
The club also needs to explicitly lay out what the difference is between a paid member and just a web visitor - what are the upsides, benefits, payback, etc. It seems that at the present time a non-member can post ads, come to meetings, speaker engagements - there needs to be a clear benefit. To some it will be speakers and member engagement at meetings - for others BBQ's and bowling may be interesting - we have to clearly identify benefits to capture a wider base - not everyone wants another family.


What about presenting at schools? Elementary? High school? Get in front of large groups and spread the word about the benefits of the hobby?
Al , that to me is the main issue that needs to be sorted out - what does paid  membership offer that a non member can`t enjoy for free?
10% discount at 2 stores period
Regards
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: exv152 on February 22, 2017, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: charlie on February 22, 2017, 11:53:43 AM
Al , that to me is the main issue that needs to be sorted out - what does paid  membership offer that a non member can`t enjoy for free? 10% discount at 2 stores period
Regards

I agree. There has to be more to a paid membership or else members won't continue to pay for something everyone else is getting for free anyway, this includes classified ads, discounts for special speakers, discounts for auctions etc, in addition to the store discount. The SAS or Sacramento Aquarium Society seems to get it, see link... http://sacramentoaquariumsociety.info/membership/membership.html (http://sacramentoaquariumsociety.info/membership/membership.html)

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: limed on February 22, 2017, 02:50:28 PM
   This give me some good idles for adding stuff that only paid members can see.
Adding paid membership link for maybe some talks from other clubs that only paid members
can watch and new letters and other things. Will have to talk to the others to see what we can do.
  Need to add value to the paid members that buy a membership to support the club.

Ed
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: zenins on February 22, 2017, 06:11:30 PM
Hey all,

The issues of getting and keeping new members, the relationship between the club and the local fish stores and
making meetings interesting enough to keep people coming back are the same for other clubs.
We have all had declining membership and attendance in the last few years.
There is so much information and videos on the internet,
that only one or two new tropical fish related books have been published in the last few years.
This vast amount of information on the internet ( correct or not ) makes it very tough to convince people to join the club and attend meetings.
The Q and A sessions at our meetings used to be the highlight of the meeting because you could have a nice discussion of
what worked and did not work, it may work for you, give it a try, that type of thing.

The president and executive of my home club is always trying to come up with ways to get those "keyboard hobbyists" to
come to our meetings and eventually join.

Declining membership, makes it tough to fund events like speakers, workshops, trips, giveaways and other benefits that might encourage more to join.
I like the interaction between hobbyists in person, either at a meeting or at someone's home in front of their aquariums :)

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 22, 2017, 10:01:40 PM
I agree, there needs to be some perks and benefits to becoming a paid member, and to coming out to the meetings.
Unfortunately, if the only perk is store discounts, then we really need to figure something else out. Already several stores have stopped offering discounts, and I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining ones stop at some point as well.

Getting people out to the meetings is a big thing.
How can we attract new people to the club and get existing members to come out to the meetings?
Interesting talks and speakers? Yes, but as Mike L said, they won't all appeal to everyone.
Outside events, like bowling, picnic, dinner etc? They are fun, but I would try to make those extras, and not meeting replacements.
Mini auctions? They are great, if you can get the people to bring out stuff to the club, and if you can get people to bid. It is hard if there is only 15-20 people, chances are nothing will sell for much, which discourages sellers.
Interactive event, like meet & greet, Trivia night etc? A great way to get the club members involved in stuff.
Actually, just as a thought, it could be fun to have all members attending the meeting each bring or ask a general aquarium trivia question or two. This could be interesting, because you would have people asking things about their aspects of the hobby.

Zenins - Yes, from everyone I have talked to, most clubs out there are suffering a bit due to the beast that is the internet. I know our stores have stopped carrying books because you almost have to give them away to get rid of them.
Q & A events are great as well, it gets people involved.
It is absolutely true that less membership means less money to do bigger things for the members.
I really enjoy the interaction with the members, which is why I am always up for dinner before the meeting, and wings afterwards. :)
Jody

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: zenins on February 22, 2017, 10:25:44 PM
Quote from: Jody on February 22, 2017, 10:01:40 PM

I really enjoy the interaction with the members, which is why I am always up for dinner before the meeting, and wings afterwards. :)

Jody


Yes ... we can do that when I come to speak to OVAS on April 24 :)

Zenin

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: ajm1961 on February 23, 2017, 06:01:24 AM
A number of ideas being generated in this thread - in fact it's nice to see the forum come alive. For much of the winter it seemed pretty quiet.

Aside from a decline in meeting attendance, the most worrying trend for me is the slowly shrinking executive. We actually amended the executive format a few years ago to bring it down from 13 positions to the current 8. And now it seems even that is too big! Unless we get some more individuals interested in participating at that level, I'm afraid the club won't survive much longer. Let's face it, we need people to put these ideas in action, organize meetings, attract members, keep sponsors, manage the funds, etc. I did my part for 5 years as newsletter chair, vice-president and president. Those who are currently on the executive have been doing their part for at least 3 years now. I personally thank them for finding the time to keep OVAS alive. We all owe them our gratitude.

So, how can we make it easier for people to volunteer? Fewer meetings? Fewer exec meetings? Use teleconference for exec meetings? List of tasks divided by a larger number of volunteers? Fewer positions? Is it time to think about online events if we have a greater number of "keyboard members"? Does it need to be mainly a website/forum with perhaps a few official events and leave it to members to organize themselves to meet, such as the plantaholics? Maybe it's time to rethink what a club means in the 21st century...
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 23, 2017, 08:10:32 AM
I have a few suggestions , but i need to clarify my suggestions are in no way , shape or form is intended to discriminate any group or groups of the community, it based solely on how to (a) revitalize the club (b) generating revenue to offer better programs (c) promoting the hobby , there is no hidden agenda personal or otherwise.
As witrh anything else , committed volunteers are needed to make things happen.
I suggest we look at having the web site /forum a bit more club membership driven.
I have observed the classifieds are now re open to replying to ads in both member & non member ads( quite honestly i don`t understand what are the reasons for the separation of the two)
(A)I would suggest the ability to reply to ads in the forum be a membership only  privilege ( if possible?)
I would also suggest  that non members be limited to" X" number of ads per month or other.
( B) At one time there use to be a chat room, bring it back as a membership privilege with possibly theme nights, if there is a  interactive tool for live audio chat use it, helps people like me who can talk faster than they can type  ;)
( C ) Try to get the photo contest back on stream with meaningful prizes for club members, i other words it can be open to all and sundry but only the top "X" club members will be awarded It can be African cichild specie  of the month, plant of the month, coral of the month and so on.
(D)New forum sign ons getting a welcome message that outlines the club and it`s benefits
I want to interject again, it takes volunteers to accomplish these things, perfect for those who would like to get involved but can make it to meetings or allocate time on the exec.
Meetings
(A)A serious effort should be made to explore interactive web based exec. meetings, this eliminates the amount of meet ups and possibly encourage members to step up.
(B)Do more of Exec. input / votes in the exec. forum( i implemented this in my time not sure if it`s still practiced)
(C) Have a look at meeting places and location, perhaps a quiet family restaurant that would welcome some action on a dead night, Legions for the same reason - fill a void night of empty space .
(D) More interaction between Exec. members and attending members ( lead by example) more so with new attendees.
Just a few that i can think of now , i`m sure i can think of more but this in my opinion is a possible way to start the revitalization of OVAS .
Errol
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: CC-Slider on February 23, 2017, 08:21:39 PM
Quote from: charlie on February 23, 2017, 08:10:32 AM
if there is a  interactive tool for live audio chat use it, helps people like me who can talk faster than they can type  ;)

There is Discord a free chat program from Google https://discordapp.com/ (https://discordapp.com/) I use it for online gaming. It allows both voice and chat and you can create your own room. Did I mention it is free.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: lucius on February 23, 2017, 09:28:38 PM
I found some older threads concerning the chat rooms in the Executive Forum area so I can't link them here.

But the main issue was that no one was moderating the chat room and of course some 'things' were said.  I'm not sure about the other mods but I have zero intention of moderating a chat room 24/7.  Oddly enough, the last individual that wanted to bring web chat back was a former mod. 

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 24, 2017, 12:48:29 AM
I agree that some limitation on the classifieds for non members would be a good thing.
I do remember hearing some rumblings that the live chats had been problematic with some individuals, though hopefully they are long gone, and it is just us civilized folks now. :)
I like the idea of a photo contest, but could we make it part of our meeting? Would it be hard to do a quick monthly vote  of hands on the pictures at the meeting? Obviously using a projector would be the easiest, but just a laptop would work too. 
I think that it is important that new members are welcomed into the club, it would be great if the Pres/VP or meeting lead exec gave them a quick thanks for coming out, and just reminded people to include them.
One thing about volunteering, I think that people get the idea that if the offer to help out, then they will have a huge list of jobs that they need to do. This isn't really the case. There are a lot of ways you could help out.  If you are willing to help out, please let us know, as any sort of volunteer is handy.
Obviously, one big thing that we, as club members, both attending and online, need to do, is let the current exec and future exec know what we want for the club. Be it content we would like to see, speakers we would like to hear (though a small club is a bit limited), or just activities we would like to do. Input is very important, and everyone's ideas count.

Jody

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: CC-Slider on February 24, 2017, 04:51:10 AM
Quote from: lucius on February 23, 2017, 09:28:38 PM
I found some older threads concerning the chat rooms in the Executive Forum area so I can't link them here.

But the main issue was that no one was moderating the chat room and of course some 'things' were said.  I'm not sure about the other mods but I have zero intention of moderating a chat room 24/7.  Oddly enough, the last individual that wanted to bring web chat back was a former mod.  



As for the chat/Voice room, I agree it is way to much for one person to monitor. So you delegate, from what I have seen we have many people that regularly post here, we could make many of them mods and a few of them as Admins of the channel. Mods have the power to police the channel and to ban while admins can do the same plus have the power to administrate the channel. In discord the Chat and voice are the same room. So all we would need is 4-5 people willing to be mods this doesn't have to be members of the Comity, just members that people know and participate regularly here. Also only give access to Members and they have to use there OVAS screen name on the Chat/Voice Channel. This should limit any issues as my experience it is the anonymous people on chat that cause the issue. If people know you and have meet you in real life less likely to troll.

And don't worry if you have never moderated a channel before all you need to really know is how to lower the BANHAMMER on any one out of line. Also this does not have to be managed by the executive team , Instead just regular members could monitor and handle the channel.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 24, 2017, 05:02:10 AM
Just a thought, let`s change the approach.
Lets focus of finding ways to make things work as opposed to finding ways why it won`t work.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: lucius on February 24, 2017, 07:57:32 AM
Quote from: Jody on February 21, 2017, 11:03:55 AM
ajm1961  This idea was put forth to the executive at the beginning of the season (for a slightly reduced rate, which would have been covered by about 4 new members). I found out last week,  that the idea was rejected. I offered to do the work to implement and keep it updated at the store level, but it did not go anywhere.

Jody


Can you go into details on what you had proposed?  There was mention of discontinuing the discounts at one point.  Was this part of the proposal?
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: lucius on February 24, 2017, 08:19:26 AM
Quote from: CC-Slider on February 24, 2017, 04:51:10 AM
As for the chat/Voice room, I agree it is way to much for one person to monitor. So you delegate, from what I have seen we have many people that regularly post here, we could make many of them mods and a few of them as Admins of the channel. Mods have the power to police the channel and to ban while admins can do the same plus have the power to administrate the channel. In discord the Chat and voice are the same room. So all we would need is 4-5 people willing to be mods this doesn't have to be members of the Comity, just members that people know and participate regularly here. Also only give access to Members and they have to use there OVAS screen name on the Chat/Voice Channel. This should limit any issues as my experience it is the anonymous people on chat that cause the issue. If people know you and have meet you in real life less likely to troll.

And don't worry if you have never moderated a channel before all you need to really know is how to lower the BANHAMMER on any one out of line. Also this does not have to be managed by the executive team , Instead just regular members could monitor and handle the channel.

I think this goes back to a previous point mentioned in which forum users are not necessarily OVAS Club Members.  Not all 'regulars' are OVAS Club Members either.  If a chat room were implemented, then I would suggest OVAS Club Members use their full real names and a face pic of themselves in the avatar.  This would definitely take away the anonymity.

Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 24, 2017, 08:23:14 AM
Yes, I can post the entire proposal here for others to see.
The idea was to change how we did the discount, not just discontinue it.


Dear OVAS Executive committee,
    I have a goal to increase the interest, and with it the membership in the club.

        When I look at member attendance at the meetings, both old members and new ones, I think we can all agree that we need to find a better way to bring people into the club, and let them know it exists.  This should be a major goal of the club executive, and I think that I can offer a great option to, hopefully, grow the club.  New members
can bring fresh ideas, more volunteers, as well as more in club dues.

        The bigger the club, the bigger the draw is for speakers, especially if we want to get some bigger names in, who may come with a higher price tag.  Big speakers tend to like full rooms, and if we do a special event speaker, then hopefully we can bring more people out to see them.

        To do this, I propose offering some in store advertising, in the form of a posted flyer in a couple of locations at each store, informing people of the upcoming meeting or event.

        Of course, the problem that has always come up is that by advertising the club in store, it becomes a discount program, which is why I propose replacing the 10% discount with a couple of friends and family days during the course of the season.

        As usual we would continue to offer a donation for the auction, and would like a table/spot at the Aquamania event, if there is a vendor's room.

      I propose continuing  as a sponsor the OVAS site, but for a reduced and what I feel is fair rate, maybe $70 dollars. This number was reached looking at 8 meeting dates, plus 1 or 2 events, and reducing the cost by $10 per date/event doing in store advertising.
     
     The goal is to increase the interest and membership in the club but doing in store advertising. As it would no longer be considered a discount card given for membership,  staff would be free to talk and promote the club as well, as they see fit.

          Being now owned by Big Al's Corporate,  I would need to confirm this idea with them, but wanted to approach the exec with the idea first. They would have to give me clearance for exact values for website sponsorship, but I think the number that I have given are reasonable and should work for them.

    I can discuss this with you further on Monday at the dinner.


That is the exact letter that I sent.
Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on February 24, 2017, 08:24:41 AM
I agree with having to use actual names in the chat. It certainly reduces the trolling that can happen otherwise.

Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on February 24, 2017, 09:04:04 AM
Quote from: Jody on February 24, 2017, 08:24:41 AM
I agree with having to use actual names in the chat. It certainly reduces the trolling that can happen otherwise.

Jody

There was a reason why in my suggestion , that it be restricted to " OVAS Club Members" there is a little more discretion on how we use the chat, and it is another perk for membership.
I`m aware of all the issues in the prior era of chat umpteen years ago.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: exv152 on February 24, 2017, 02:13:25 PM
I'd like to offer my two cents to this discussion.

I think Jody's idea (and/or Andre's) of putting flyers in the LFS's is a great way to get the word out about OVAS.  This includes posting flyers in not just BA's but as many stores as possible and it could be a very generic poster that can remain there for a long time without the need to be updated. All it would need to do is refer folks to the website for the latest planned events & meetings. Even if the sponsourship amount were to be reduce or not, the idea of putting a poster in the LFS's is a great idea.

Also, a while back I read something by a very popular aquairum guru in the US who has his own website/forum and was having membership issues. He mentioned that when he was experiencing membership lows he would post free ads on craigslist, where most folks shop for used aquarium stuff and as a result he would easily get 10-15 new members everytime he did this. We have craigslist here in Canada and we also have kijiji and usedottawa etc, and I'm sure a few ads in the Sun or Citizen wouldn't cost a lot.

On a side note, I think the website could also use a makeover. When I look at the forum and home webpage it looks more like an old fashion kiwanis, rotary or shriners club webpage. Even the logo could use a face-lift IMO. Something with HD photos in the header. Maybe photos of high tech planted tanks, shrimp, reefs, plecos, cichlids etc. Make it look more like the pages of an Amazonas magazine edition.  This would appeal to a wider range of millennials and younger folks, which I think the club is lacking.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: zenins on February 24, 2017, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: exv152 on February 24, 2017, 02:13:25 PM
I'd like to offer my two cents to this discussion.

I think Jody's idea (and/or Andre's) of putting flyers in the LFS's is a great way to get the word out about OVAS.  This includes posting flyers in not just BA's but as many stores as possible and it could be a very generic poster that can remain there for a long time without the need to be updated. All it would need to do is refer folks to the website for the latest planned events & meetings. Even if the sponsourship amount were to be reduce or not, the idea of putting a poster in the LFS's is a great idea.

Also, a while back I read something by a very popular aquairum guru in the US who has his own website/forum and was having membership issues. He mentioned that when he was experiencing membership lows he would post free ads on craigslist, where most folks shop for used aquarium stuff and as a result he would easily get 10-15 new members everytime he did this. We have craigslist here in Canada and we also have kijiji and usedottawa etc, and I'm sure a few ads in the Sun or Citizen wouldn't cost a lot.

On a side note, I think the website could also use a makeover. When I look at the forum and home webpage it looks more like an old fashion kiwanis, rotary or shriners club webpage. Even the logo could use a face-lift IMO. Something with HD photos in the header. Maybe photos of high tech planted tanks, shrimp, reefs, plecos, cichlids etc. Make it look more like the pages of an Amazonas magazine edition.  This would appeal to a wider range of millennials and younger folks, which I think the club is lacking.


These are all great suggestions :)

What is required is for people to come forward and do the tasks required.

Usually these tasks fall to the same small group of people and they get burned out and
discouraged that more people are not involved  :-X

This has happened at least twice in my home club in Kitchener,
and I am sure it is the same at many other clubs  :(

I hope your club works out some easy doable things that yield great results :)


Zenin


Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: charlie on March 10, 2017, 12:00:27 PM
No one thinking out loud  :P
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Jody on March 19, 2017, 09:28:20 PM
Okay, back from holidays, so now I can continue my thinking..lol

I like the idea of someone posting announcements on kijiji, used ottawa and craigslist about upcoming events.  I will check into some of the other free community boards to see what is out there. I don't mind a bit of popping around to drop off notices if there are some offline ones too.

Jody
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: lucius on March 21, 2017, 12:58:00 PM
If anyone is on Facebook, maybe they can start updating the OVAS Facebook page again.  I looked into it but I don't have my own Facebook account so I can't do it.