54G Corner Build

[gerryo]

 
Good morning guys and gals.

So, I have my Corner Stand built, covered with Oak, stained and sealed.
I have my Sump tank all ready.  A 30 inch shallow tank - abt 20G.  I also have the glass cut to install the bubble trap - app. 9 inches high with an over - under - over setup.

I have built my Fuge out of acrylic which was no easy job. This will hold abt 10G with a overflow box into the return portion of the sump.  I will use a low vol. pump to move water from the return section into the fuge and simply drain back into the sump.

My question is;  Will Live Rock Rubble work OK in the fuge along with Live Sand and should the sand be about 5-6 inches deep?  I also have quite a few fairly big shells of many types.  Is it ok to put these into the fuge as well?

Question number two is;  There are a lot of pods and worms in my LR and Rubble.  Should there also be a CUC in the fuge?  I know that snails do not eat the pods but they do eat algae.  Should this be left to produce Nitrates?

Thanx for your help.

[Hookup]

There are two main thoughts on a fuge, sand or no sand.  I personally like the no-sand version with some LR rubble to help with pod production.  This enables the bare-bottom to be vacuumed clean during water-changes because in my case, the density of the cheato slows the water flow and suspended detritus falls to the bottom. 

I see no problems putting some CUC in your fuge, but I believe as a rule it's not required or done that often.  I have a few hermits in my LR bin (in the sump) just to keep on top of any build up or what-not... But nothing's in my fuge but cheato and a handful of rubble.

[Vincenzo.]

no sand. about 4-6lbs of rubble or one light weight very porous piece and lot's of chaeto.

[gerryo]

 

OK. So, no sand it is.  A few hermits to clean up and lots of cheato.  Other macro algea if it grows on the rock and slow water flow.

Light will be spiral flourescent on during the day, for the time being, until I get everything else set up.

I plan on using an old Fluval Canister as water mover, as this I already have and it does not cause too much flow.  Should I put active charcoal in there as a water clarifier?

Thanx for your help Guys.

[Vincenzo.]

ya carbon is always good and easy to maintain. Just change every 3-6 months

[Hookup]

watch what brand of carbon you get... some have been proven to leach phosphate back into the water...  Ask the LFS, they should know.. if they cannot 100% with confidence say yes or no, then i would not risk it and find carbon elsewhere.

[gerryo]

I now have my sump being pumped into my fuge which is overflowing back into the other end of the sump.  This pump is my Fluval 204 into which I have put 900 ml. of Marineland Black Diamond activated carbon.  I got this carbon yestereday and installed it yesterday.  Now today you tell me to be careful of which carbon I purchase.
There is just too much to be aware of and not enough time to do all of this questioning ahead of time.  It will just have to do, Phosphate or not.  I'm NOT changing it this soon.

Seems to me we need a list of GOOD things and a list of Bad things.  Maybe then all us noobies could know some of the things you Pros know.

Anyhow, my system is running backward for now until I get my tank.  Then I will get it turned around and running properly.  Sure feels good to have that much wet water flowing.

By the way, I purchased my sump tank from BA's and it was adverted as a twenty gallon.
When I was filling it I put in 3 - 5 gallon Bottles of RO water and it was full.  Seems to me that only adds up to 15 gallons.  Ah well.  Live and learn.  But I doubt that they would let me check it out first.  Something else to put on the BAD list.

[Rybren]

I use the Black Diamond carbon in my tank.  Don't worry about it, it's one of the good ones.

WRT the sump volume, your 5 gal jugs are likely imperial and the tank volume is likely US gallons.  20 USG = 16.654 Imp Gal.

Try going to www.WetWebMedia.com  there's an incredible amount of info there, especially for noobs.

[gerryo]

Sorry about that, folks.

I just guessed that I was living in Canada.  That's a laugh.  (laugh - did I spell that right or should it be in american - laff?) 

Everything seems to be going OK with my sump and fuge.  I shut everything down last night since nothing is in there that needs water movement.  When I went back to it this morning the water had found it's own level - even flowed backward through the Fluval and leveled the water in the fuge with the water in the sump.  Since my fuge is 18 in. high and my sump is only twelve, the sump was rather full.  Guess I'd better watch out for that difference in the size of a gallon. 

[gerryo]

I just realized that this is NOT a 54G Build.  It is a 44.964G (Imp.) Build.

That's going to be hard to get used to.

Maybe I should switch to a 92G.  That would then be 76.606G (Imp).

Well that wo'nt be any easier to remember.

[gerryo]

Hi all.

  I've been thinking.  (My xyl says "Oh No".)  Anyway, here goes.  I have been thinking of reefing in a 54G corner for some time now.  My discussion yesterday about tank sizes made me realize that a 54G is actually pretty small. 

So what about a 92G.  I already have my stand built for the 54.  Would that have been a waste of time and money?

This morning I done a lot of careful measuring and guess what?  IT FITS !!!   
I had made the stand about 3 inches wider and longer than was needed for the 54 so with the added dimensions of a 92 it is just about the right size.  What about strength, you say?  Ok.  I used all double 2x4 framing on edge with all 1/4 inch ply on those.  Then covered the whole thing with 1 in. oak.  If that isn't strong enough, I don't know what would be.
Anyway,  would a 92 be better than a 54 ??  How much more would it cost? etc.,etc.

Needs some thought.  Any comments or ideas?

[Hookup]

All in all, I do not see any huge inceases in cost... this is my pro-con list;

Costs increases
  1. possibly more lighting.. tank might be deeper/bigger... can be phased in
  2. additional salt & trace elements/etc... more water by almost 2x, therefore you'll go threw those 2x as fast... 10% weekly waterchange went from 5.4gal to 9.2..
  3. additional corals - well this not only costs up front, but it hits on item 2 again... more stuff taking calcium/mag/alk from the water, the more they need to be replaced.


benifits
  1. more water = more stability = everything happier... also when things start to go south, you have more time to catch it and correct
  2. more water = more stuff - this is always fun
  3. at 90gal corner, you now can get into some bigger fish than you would have had access to at 54g
  4. as a foot-print in your house, they are about the same, so double your fun with out creating an OMG IT'S HUGE effect, while still being OMG HUGE
  5. does a 54gal fit inthe stand as a cool sump?  (cause that would be neat..)

[White Lightning]

For cost purposes, you will need to purchase more live rock than that of a 54 gallon . I believe the rule of thumb is 1-1.5 lbs per gallon of water. I found the live rock to be the biggest expense when I first set up my tank. In hindsight, I wish I would have went bigger. A 90 would have been great as opposed to the 65 gallon that I currently have. Go BIG or go home is my motto.....

[gerryo]

Hi gang.  I'm finally back from the great beyond.

Meanwhile I have been working on my tank.  Bought the 54G Corner and have a Tunze 9410 skimming away in there.  I also have T5HO lighting from Current USA which I will show later.

Bought a lot of Live Rock and actually overfilled the tank.  See picture.

Sump, fuge canister and display tank add up to about 85 gallons, less the space taken by the rock, sand and equipment, probably comes out to about 60 gallons.  A lot of water messing about.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[gerryo]

So, to the lighting.

I purchased 1 - 24in. T5HO and 2 - 18in T5HO by Current USA.  Now these lights do NOT fit onto a triangular tank very well so I built an aluminum rack to hold them.  The 2ft across the front, and an 18in along each side of the triangle.  The picture is self explanitory.

These light are phenominal in that they actually cause some problems to some corals, such as the Pagoda Coral.  Had to be acclimated.

I then bought a 150W clamp on HQI by Corallife, to place in the triangle not covered by the T5's.  With this light in place none of the leathers, the pagoda, and my hydnaphora would not open up.  I removed the light and everything is fine again.  I'm moving the HQI to my Nano which has been started.

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[JetJumper]

Very Nice!  I have the same tank at home which will eventually have SW in it.  Too much on my plate right now to do it though.  Looking good!

[gerryo]

I tried to do a post with some pics of my corals.  First it says that each attachment can be 1024, and that you can do 10.  Then when you get this all set up with each pic resized and browsed, and you try to post, THEN it tells you you can only do 2048.   Why aren't you told this at the beginning as well instead of waiting until we have gon through all thos machinations.

Anyway, Thats 2 pics at 1024.

So here's some of my corals.

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[gerryo]

And a couple more.

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[Rybren]

Looking good Gerry,

Now hurry up and get some pics on your other thread!

[gerryo]

Thanx Jerry.

I have no problem posting here, whether it be pics or simple thread.

I'll go down and take a pic of the Nano right now.

[gerryo]

Three FTS's when I removed some rock to my Nano.

This is one instance when less is more.

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[gerryo]

Couple shots of my fish.

The Coral Beauty is so dark it is hard to see in most pics.

The Solorensis male's colours show up even in the semi dark.

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[gerryo]

Hi everyone.  I've been away for a while and lots of things have been happening.

This tank suffered a total crash in November of last year, and it took a long time to get it going again.  The cause of the crash is still not known for sure.  There was a fault in the heater, the tank overheated and fryed or poached everything.  All fish, all corals, all everything. 

So now I have mostly softies again, just to keep things easier.  Xenia, Leathers, Mushrooms, Buttons, Zoas, RBTA, Purple Sponge.  Couple of SPS - Hydnophora, and a Potato Chip Pavona.

3 fish - a pair of Ocellaris Clowns and a Yellow Corris Wrasse.

I'll post pics as soon as I figure out - AGAIN - how to do the posting.

[gerryo]

OK. I recieved the last of my LEDs from Rapid.  This kit is 6 Royal Blues and 6 Bright Whites to go in the back corner of the tank.  I had covered this spot with an 18 inch T5HO but was not happy with the blue back there after installing the blue LEDs across the front and across the middle of the tank.   

I'll get this fixture built and then take some pics. to show the difference.

Had to make a drastic change in my light rack to go from T5HOs to the LEDs.  I'm still using some T5s as well so should be well lit up.

[Rybren]

Gerry,

Good to see that you're sticking with it.  You'll have some mad LED skills when you're done.

[gerryo]

Thanx Jerry.

Woke up this morning to hair algea all over the place.  Didn't have any algea problems since the last crash in Nov.

The reason I know it's algea is that there are air bubbles trapped in it as they are being made by the algea.  I don't have a Tang to fight this stuff, so should I just leave it to run it's course?  I assumed the CUC would take care of thinga like this. lol  This stuff is all over the corals.  Zoos, Leathers, everything is being affected. 

[Darth]

check your phosphates, getting a tang is great but if the algea is taking over there is some imbalance in the tank. I would do some water changes maybe run a phosban reactor how longis your photo period?

[gerryo]

The only thing that has changed in this tank, over the last month, has been the addition of the new Rapid LED Royal Blue LEDs.

I have switched them off and will see if there is any improvement.

I have never ran a phosban reactor.  I do not own one. Maybe a change in the photoperiod on the LEDs will also make a difference.

[Darth]

what is your water change routine like? have you changed salt mixes, something is causing the outbreak it sucks cause it could be anything at this point

[gerryo]

No, my salt mix is the same as always.  Like I say, nothing else has changed.

I have had the blue LEDs turned off for the last 1 1/2 hours and I have already had a change in the Zoos and Leathers.  The Zoos have coloured back up and opened, and the leathers have opened up as well and have started one of their sloughing off stages.

Lets see what happens over night just to see if it is connected to the use of the blue LEDs.

Wish me luck.

[Darth]

good luck interested to see if it's the lights

[gerryo]

I would say at this point that the biggest part of the problem is the use of the blue LEDs.      Obviously the algea growth is connected to the blue concentration.

The growth has abated considerably but is not over yet.  I have decreased the photoperiod of all my lights to see if I can curb this even further.

However, I seem to have lost my Alveopora and my Hammer to the algea smothering.  Only time will tell.  Other corals may bounce back with the use of the turkey baster and higher water flow.  I have added another Koralia 3 in here to swirl things about.

[Hookup]

I would think that the additional light, I.e. Increased PAR is the issue, not the blue itself.

That said, algae needs phosphate to grow... So find that source and you can eliminate it. 

Test for phosphate and get a reading, likely 0ppm cause your algae is consuming it as fast as it is being produced....  Then for a second test, heat some tank water to 80* or so for 30seconds and test the water when it cools.  It won't be accurate, but it will show existence of organic phosphate (or inorganic, I forget... The one the hobby test doesnt test for)...

Finally, test your tap water, as I assume you are not using RO/DI...  Same two types of tests...


If it's not your source water, it might be foods, or even leaching from your LR.

[gerryo]

Phosphate test reads 0 with my test kit which hasn't reached it's expiry date, yet.

Finished putting together the last LED fixture and installed it on the tank.  This fixture with 6 whites and six blues replaces an 18 inch T5HO that was on there.  This fixture is over the back corner of the tank which didn't receive any of the Royal Blue Actinics.

I say that it has 6 whites and 6 blues.  That is not so.  It only has 5 whites.  My old hands shake so much now it is very hard to do soldering, so I buggered up one of the LEDs.  This company offers terminals for the LEDs that you do not solder.  Guess what I'll be using from here on in.

To try to counter some of the algea growth, I have removed the first LED fixture that I installed.  It has 12 Royal blue LEDs in a single row, and this was placed across the middle of the tank, with 80 degree lenses on the bulbs.  The lenses concentrate the light severely and I feel they are not needed.  You get much better spread of the light without the lens.  Rapid say that the spread from the bare bulb is at abt. 140 degrees.  Almost twice as wide as an 80 degree lens.

This should remove some of the par from the bottom of the tank and not give the algea its life source.

[Hookup]

This should remove some of the par from the bottom of the tank and not give the algea its life source.

Algae needs phosphate to grow... light is simply good... (however bad-bulbs can promote growth in algae, this is possible too)

Think about SPS systems which would have more light than you have but no algae... i think that the missing ingredient is that you have nutrients and they do not.

Phosphate test reads 0 with my test kit which hasn't reached it's expiry date, yet.

Test for phosphate and get a reading, likely 0ppm cause your algae is consuming it as fast as it is being produced....

[Rybren]

Gerry,

I tend to agree with Hookup.  I doubt that your lights are to blame for the algae; it's more than likely caused by excess nitrogen-based elements and/or phosphorus-based elements.

I'd start running GFO and macro.  I'd also consider doing a series of water changes in an attempt to dilute/remove the excess nutrients.

[gerryo]

OK.  Water changes I can do more often.  I do 10% weekly now.  Do I increase this to 10% every 3 days?  Or more often.

What is GFO?  Never been involved with this before.  I have no reactors.  Can this be run in a canister filter?

Macro.  Do you mean that I should put Macro Algea in here to fight the Micro?

[dan2x38]

GFO = granulate ferrous oxide

Your running a canister filter? That can also be the contributor to the algae the canister filter can create a nitrate sink. As for macro algae it will up take your macro nutrients like nitrate & phosphates then get rid of some (export) and it keeps growing - it will out compete the algae.

[Greatwhite]

Macro.  Do you mean that I should put Macro Algea in here to fight the Micro?

Macro algae eats the same stuff that micro algae does.  Chaeto grows in a ball and doesn't spread - and eats up phosphates and nitrates, and it gives a nice place for pods to live!  Most people keep a ball of it in their refugium, but you CAN put some in your display tank in a plastic mesh bag - it just doesn't look real nice.

I like turbo and trochus snails in a fight with algae...

[gerryo]

I'm not running a canister filter right now.  I use one about once a month, when I remember it, to run carbon in the system.  Then it is off line again.

There are apparently many things that can contribute to algae growth, and just as many ways to try to control it.  What I need to do is try something for a while to see if it works, then if not, switch to something else.  Too many things tried could cause more problems that I don't even know about yet.

I will try the GFO method, along with some macro, and see if this works.  Tomorrow.

And thanx, Greatwhite, for the cheato idea.  I do not have a refugium.  I had one for about a year, with cheato in it, and it never grew.  Never produced any pod life that I could determine, even though the display tank had massive bursts of pod growth, none of it ever grew in my fuge.  So I removed it.  Maybe I could salvage it.  Tomorrow.

[Rybren]

Gerry,

Let me caveat the following by stating up front that I am by no means an expert.  But to the best of my knowledge, I believe the following to be true...

Algae needs 3 things to live:

1. Light,
2. Water,
3. Nutrients

Remove any one of the three and the algae will start to wither away.

Given that we are running reef tanks, we cannot eliminate 1 & 2.  So that leave us with doing something about #3.  There are many means available to us to achieve this.  Most reefers employ a number of methods, namely:

1.  Running GFO (Granular Ferric Oxide)  This can be run in a reactor, canister filter, HOB filter, a sack sitting in the sump
2.  Growing macro algae in the sump, DT, or HOB filter to out-compete the microalgae by using up the nutrients first
3.  Running an algae turf scrubber (ATS) to grow algae and use up the nutrients
4.  Using a skimmer or upgrading the skimmer
5.  Running carbon 24/7 (using the same methods as for GFO)  Carbon has been proven to remove more DOCs (Dissolved Organic Carbon) than skimming (See Advanced Aquarist magazine - I can't find the link right now)  DOCs tend to break down into their component elements, adding to elevated nutrient levels
6.  Performing regular water changes
7.  Using foods that are low in Phosphorous and rinsing frozen foods
8.  Reducing the amount of food being fed
9.  Carbon dosing:  Biopellets, Vodka, vinegar, sugar

There are probably even more methods that I haven't touched on.  You can also try reducing the photo-period, or even going lights-out for a couple of days.  However, if the nutrient levels are not addressed, then the algae will return.

Of course, I may be way out in left field. 

[gerryo]

Ok.  I think that I now understand how a GFO works.

Is a carbon reactor the same as a GFO reactor?  Can they be interchanged?
If I am to run both at the same time and 24/7 then should I have 2 of them?  And since there are 3 compartments in my canister filter, can I run them both in there at the same time?

It's easy to reduce the amount of food.  So maybe my little fishies will go hungry until they adjust.  But how do you rinse frozen food? 

As for Macro, does anyone have any cheato they can spare?

My skimmer is a Tunze 9410, so is more than adequate for a 54G tank.
Water changes are easy.  A nusance, but easy.

[dan2x38]

Ok.  I think that I now understand how a GFO works.

Is a carbon reactor the same as a GFO reactor?  Can they be interchanged?
If I am to run both at the same time and 24/7 then should I have 2 of them?  And since there are 3 compartments in my canister filter, can I run them both in there at the same time?

- Yes they can be run in same type of reactor i.e. Two Little Fish Phosban 150.
- It is best to run separate reactors for each media.
- Yes it can be run in a canister filter but leave out the floss. Carbon wears out first so you could use a little less GFO and change at same time. Ray sells GFO & carbon in bulk.
- You have to change both media on a regular bases.

It's easy to reduce the amount of food.  So maybe my little fishies will go hungry until they adjust.  But how do you rinse frozen food? 

I use a brine shrimp net over a cup and pour some tank water through it. What stays in the net you add to the tank the stuff in the cup you ditch.

As for Macro, does anyone have any cheato they can spare?

Yes can have as much as you can carry PM me for directions available tonight plz bring a bag. It is complete with lots of pods, mini brittlestars and other critters.

Check in classifieds there is a modified Aqua Clear 110 for a HOB fuge great little deal for tanks with no sumps plus easy for critters to pass to DT - think he wants $45 maybe will bargain?

[Rybren]

What Dan said...

[gerryo]

Thanx Guys.

And Dan, pm comin'.

[Hookup]

did RO/DI get discussed? 

[gerryo]

I don't have RO/DI water.  Just RO.  My water comes from a deep well and then through a water softener before the RO unit.

No, I do not use a TDS meter.  I have no idea what it might be.  My water softening system is by Culligan, so they look after the changing of membranes and filters.  All I do is the salt.

[Hookup]

I don't have RO/DI water.  Just RO.  My water comes from a deep well and then through a water softener before the RO unit.

No, I do not use a TDS meter.  I have no idea what it might be.  My water softening system is by Culligan, so they look after the changing of membranes and filters.  All I do is the salt.

ever test your tap water for phosphates?  (after mixed up for salt to 25deg and 1.025ppm)

[gerryo]

I now have my 12G Fuge back in line.  I'll get some cheato and see if I can raise some critters in there.

Is this supposed to supply the DT with critters, and if so, how do they get past the skimmer, the GFO Reactor, the Carbon Reactor, and the Return Pump without getting all chopped up?

I have a 33g tank set up to make salt water for changes.  Any testing I do is at 1.025 and 75.5 degrees.  This is always free of Phosphates. 

[Greatwhite]

Is this supposed to supply the DT with critters, and if so, how do they get past the skimmer, the GFO Reactor, the Carbon Reactor, and the Return Pump without getting all chopped up?

I think you will have to buy the critters brown hats and whips - and call them all Indy. 

I have the same problem.  I don't know how many pods get sucked up in my skimmer, and how many manage to make it all the way to the return pump just to get chopped into tiny bits.  It really is a good ad for a HOB fuge, in the end....

[Rybren]

I'm sure that some pods make it through the gauntlet of pumps without issue.  I once read a study on the subject and the vast majority made it through unscathed.

In my setup, the fuge overflows into the return section.  I give the chaeto a good shake every now and then - shortly thereafter, I can see the pods entering the DT from the return.

[gerryo]

So, I guess I could reroute the fuge overflow to the return pump section.  Then they would only have to deal with one pump.

I am going to try using my canister filter for a GFO Reactor.  Along with the Carbon, this should work out ok.  I'll just have to deal with changing them both out at the same time. 

[ryancarman.com]

So, I guess I could reroute the fuge overflow to the return pump section.  Then they would only have to deal with one pump.

I am going to try using my canister filter for a GFO Reactor.  Along with the Carbon, this should work out ok.  I'll just have to deal with changing them both out at the same time. 

yeah you don't want your fuge flowing past your skimmer, because the pods won't make it through the skimmer in significant numbers, but they are tiny so the will make it through return pumps

[gerryo]

Yes, I have already thought out the rerouting plan.  Just need to get the fittings now.

And yes, Jerry, I got a large ball of cheato from Dan.  Wonderful.  And thanx for the link to the stand build.  That also is a good one.  I'll use his parameters.   

[gerryo]

Changed the T5 bulbs on here today.  Let's see if that makes any difference.

The Yellow Tang has got rid of all the visible algea in the tank.  Even ate all of that red stuff that I thought was Cyano.  Chomped it up as if it was lettuce.

I have been feeding him on Swisse Chard and Spinach.  Is there anything else he should be getting? 

[gerryo]

This tank is also in the process of being shut down. 

Thanx for reading and trying to help.