help - green thread algae in java moss - H2O2 treatment successful

[magnosis]

I have happily succeeded in growing sort of a mini tree out of driftwood and java moss, much like this one.

Unfortunately, some green thread algae has got a hold of it in the last week.
Possible causes:
- Pressurized CO2 offline for 2 days (had to fix/glue/dry a connector on my reactor)
- Improper EI dosing (started about 3 weeks ago) -- maybe too high iron level ? 0.03 ppm now.

What is interesting is that it doesn't spread (yet) elsewhere in the tank.  Only in the java moss.

I used a toothbrush to wind up and remove as much as possible, but you can imagine how difficult this is with java moss !

What should I do ? I would hate to lose half of my mini-tree because of this 

[edit] I've started an Hydrogen Peroxyde (H₂O₂) treatment, see below for a log of this experiment

[Dorrie]

Hi,

In my experience SAEs will just eat the moss too, so they're no help here.

What I suggest is what was suggested to me and that I did when I got algae in my moss: Amano shrimp, either in your main setup, or for increased efficiency, in a small QT setup with just the "infected" trees, a little gravel and the shrimp.

Maybe other have experience with other algae eaters that unlike SAEs aren't total pigs (or maybe that's just mine  )

[magnosis]

My SAE won't touch the long thread algae.  They do eat almost every type of algae that has appeared in the tank.

I've been recommended Amano Shrimps many times. The only thing slowing me down from a purchase are my three goldfish; worried they will make a snack of them in no time.

[dan2x38]

I did this and always fought the thread algae in the moss it is so close to the light. SAEs are lazy once they get older and learn you feed them... LOL Amanos work OK but again they will eat what is easiest to find - food your adding. I finally cashed it in after 1 yr. and broke up the tree. Most of those fancy pics you see are show setups done and then last for very short times before they are building another setup. Show setups are a constant struggle for balance a razors edge.

Gluing pieces to connect your hoses on a pop bottle plastic cap I am guessing? Glue or silicone will not stick to polyurethane, polyethylene, etc.. There are other methods but this is a big obstacle with DIY CO2. If your interested PM me I have some mini bulkheads from Foremost used to make the connections - you can have them. I am out of the plant World now. Getting a good connection is the first issue with DIY there are others to over come too. Also guessing this is in your 59g listed in the sig? That is a big tank to try and use DIY CO2 how many bottles you using?

[magnosis]

Gluing pieces to connect your hoses on a pop bottle plastic cap I am guessing?

My reactor is fully custom made with 2" clear abs, through which I drilled an offset hole such that the input flow creates a nice vortex. Tough to explain without pics... but yeah, I'm gluing PVC to ABS to Poly (or whatever the AC hob black input tubes are made of).

Aquarium sealant does the job (same stuff that glues the tank glass together). 

Thanks for the offered help, I appreciate it. Will ping you next time I re-engineer this thing


So..  anyone else has a miracle cure for long green thread algae ?  Blackout ? Meds/Chemicals of sorts ?

[dan2x38]

OK that is the reactor but what is teh CO2 created in?

[magnosis]

@dan: I'm using pressurized CO2


Ok, now this long thread algae problem is really getting out of control    This is crazy, some threads grow as much as 4-5 inches in a day.  It's got a solid hold of the Java Moss and just started to spread onto other plants as well.





The toothbrush method of removal is only partly effective. It's hard because it tends to pull and grab the java moss as well, which I want to preserve as much as possible.

What is another good way to get rid of it completely ?
Blackout ?
Chemical of sorts ?
Get rid of all infected moss, gravel, hardware ?

[dan2x38]

It is hard once it takes hold. Java moss is easy to get so maybe pitch it. Clean the rest out. I have heard differing opinions on hair algae and blackouts. I heard it doesn't kill it in a blackout others say it does and in my experience it didn't.

They say it starts from high levels of Fe. It also is from high nutrients. What is your lighting again? Maybe not enough or bulbs are to old. The issue is a balance so finding the root cause is important. What is your NO3? How often do you change water and how large?

I would start by reducing feedings as much as you can. Getting the hair algae out of there stay on it fast as you see it. Add more fast growing plants like wisteria, ludwiga, ploysperma, hornwort, etc. If you don't like them later you can get rid of them just replace with your favorates. You need to get your plants out competing the algae for the ferts available like your CO2, light and nutrients.

If you have low light levels try adding more. If you have lots change some bulbs old bulbs lose intensity and can cause algae growth when they do.

I know this might not be a lot of help and it is frustrating but it often gets worse before it gets better - maybe your at that point now? No matter what don't give up and try to do things one at a time and wait for results so you can determine the cause. I've kept a log so I can go back and repeat what worked. Good luck...

[magnosis]

Thanks dan for the very helpful post.

I'm pretty sure high Fe was the initial issue.  The algae started appearing about 2 weeks after I began EI dosing.  Before my weekly 50% WC, Fe is typically 0.3ppm, then the wc drops it by half, which is the target level (0.15ppm.. correct me if I'm wrong).

Nitrites and Nitrates are both 0.  I know the Nitrate level is weird, it's being discussed in another thread.  Basically I seed 20ppm of Nitrates and it's completely consumed by the plant mass..  My test kit may be bad, I just haven't had the chance to get a new one yet.

The CO2 (pressurized) is at least 30ppm, the lights are 2 x 48w T5HO 8h a day.  CO2 kicks in 1 hour before the lights go on, and shuts down 1h after lights go off.


What I find interesting is that I read from different sources that people feed thread (and hair) algae to their goldfish.  I have three big goldies, and they're not eating it at all, so I don't know what's this all about.

I think I need to get rid of the moss tree (sigh) and start fresh.  The worst would be that I ditch my moss tree, only to get the thread algae back into it again. 

Finding that balance between light/co2/nutrients is close to impossible for me, I am struggling a lot to get there but algae always seem to win over me.

[dan2x38]

Keep a log that way you know what did and didn't work. Make one change at a time and small ones. EI dosing is meant for heavy jungle like planted tanks seriously. many folks end up with algae with this method. If you are using EI make sure your plants are well established growing well and rooted well. Then dose for 1 day wait a day or so then again. In a week or two add another day for dosing and do it in stages until you get to full dosage. Also make sure to dose trace and macro on different days. The PO4 reacts with the Fe changing non-chelated to chelated so it is not picked up by plants and will build up in your tank. In fact it can even build up to a toxic level over time.

No matter what hang in there there is a balance and I know sometimes it's like a razor edge.

I had an issue with a moss tree and after a year got rid of it. They trap eveything in the water and algae takes hold easily in it. But it did look cool.

[magnosis]

I've removed two big pieces of driftwood that had a lot of algae infested java moss on them (which is like, 95% of my moss).

I'm thinking, the moss should survive well out of the water for a few days, even weeks, while the algae will quickly die.

Would it be safe to rinse it thoroughly afterward, and put it back in the tank, or do I still risk reintroducing a lot of spores and contribute to potentially another algae bloom ?

[cerne]

not sure if oto cats or CAE's would gobble up that algae i know they eat most algae i have not had a algae problem in my tank in years i have 1 bristlenose pleco and 4-6 oto's not sure honestly lol but you would need a fair amount of otos to handle that amount of algae

[HappyGuppy]

This is your solution here:
http://www.guppies.com/forums/showthread.php?21075-BBA-Thread-Hair-Algae-Kill-with-Hydrogen-Peroxide-H2O2

I've done it.  It works.  I would do it if I were you. 

[magnosis]

Thanks HappyGuppy !! Very nice find, going to give this a try this week.

[jetstream]

There's chance hydrogen peroxide will kill your moss. It works on higher level plant! Maybe other peoples can chip in their experience on that! 

[HappyGuppy]

Actually at those concentrations the moss, (in my experience) is fine.  The "higher level plants" take it no problem.  The lowest level takes it hard (algae).  Elodea suffers a bit, but it is hornwort that is hardest hit.  It drops all of it's needls (time to vacume), but if you leave the skinny stem in the tank the hornwort will bud new needles and start up again.  I've had a ton of plant species (far more than average hobbists) and for the most part all did well, with the most notable exception of hornwort - but even that grows back.

My guppies & endlers love it when I nuke the algae as it becomes edible for them.  I have spoken with others that their fish (different species) also devour dying thread & BBA algaes.  Green threads turn a greyish color while dying, but I love BBA which turns purple/pink.  I almost wish I had some BBA to enjoy nuking it again.

FWIW, I have dosed far stronger than suggested in the link, my whole tank is bubbling like gingerale, and all my fish & shrimp seem to love it... evident by the increased mating rituals while the tank is bulging with oxygen (oxygen is the byproduct of the h2o2).

I have NEVER seen a fish, snail, or shrimp negatively affected by h2o2, but you know the saying, your mileage may vary. 

[fischkopp]

You want to handle H2O2 carefully. It's highly reactive and oxidates (read: burn) any organic matter. In low concentration it will only irritate fish and inverts. But as you dose higher concentrations, it will burn gills, eyes, mucus ...

[magnosis]

What I described in the OP no longer applies as I got rid of most of my java moss (it's actually still alive, but it's been immersed for the past 6+ months)

My current concern is BGA, lots of patches on the gravel bed, and onto various plants, most probably due to me not dosing fertilizers for a while and my CO2 reactor breaking down for a few days (it's now back on feeding ~20-25ppm of CO2 daily)

My tank is housing 8 otos, 6 ruby nerite snails and hundreds of very tiny [pond?] snails, along with a fair amount of plants.

What I will start with is:
- turn off filters
- dose 1.5 ml / galon (50g of water => 75ml H2O2) via syringe right onto the BGA
- wait 2 hours
- start filters
Then, depending on the outcome, do this again 24h later with 2ml / galon.
Then, 2-3 days after, vacuum & 50% water change.

Sounds good ?

Should I *not* dose fertilizers during this treatment ?

[HappyGuppy]

For patches of BGA try taking a syring with an amount suitable for your whole tank.  Then trying to minimally disturb the water dispense the syringe close to the problem area; this gets a stronger dose locally.  You may need to do a few treatments, a few days apart.

Fischkopp: of course tread carefully, and if you have precious high dollar fish then maybe even remove them for the treatment.  I can personally attest that livebearers, ottos, snails, shrimp all seem to enjoy the treatment.  Of course you don't subject them to this daily.  Plus it really isn't as bad as you may think.  I, and many others, regularly use straight 3% h2o2 as a mouth rinse, and I frequently hold it in my mouth while showering (then spit & rinse).  I understand your concern, and used to even share it.  Now, not so much.  I have done some crazy things with h2o2 in my aquariums the past few years, and I believe in it. 

Of course your mileage may vary, and I take zero responsibility if you do anything bad.  Trying it is up to you... but I believe you'll end up liking it, and will keep one of those brown bottles amid your other fishy paraphanelia from now on.

[magnosis]

I did as HappyGuppy suggested this morning and dosed 1.5ml /gallon, using a syringe to dose locally on every little patch of BGA.

I'll let know you of any change I notice tonight.

I also need to pick up KNO3 from B&B to continue with my EI-light regime.  Can anyone confirm if it is safe to dose dry ferts (all 3 + traces) during an H2O2 treatment ?