Very Disappointed

[dpatte]

As one of the original designers and developers of the interactive OVAS website, I'd like to say that I am very disappointed with the recent discision to block the classified to outside users.

The original idea of the OVAS website was to attract new members to the OVAS community, by allowing them to interact with club members, and to show that the club is an open community whose primary motivation is a common interest in aquariums. The classified where an integral part of this concept.

When the interactive site first went online, OVAS had less than 18 paid members. Yes, I said 18. In fact it may have been 13. By opening the site to the public, this allowed the community to discover the club, and interact with the membership. Within 4 years our membership grew to over 100. In fact, I believe I am correct that it recently grew to over 200. This is because of the interaction between members and non-members.

This is mostly to do with being open and inviting to non-members, and allowing people to meet personally before deciding whether to join OVAS. The classified where a major part of this bringing together of area fish fans. Members, in their own homes or the homes of others, acted as salemen for the club, and it worked.

With the classified now closed from non-members, a major portion of the web strategy and the raison-d'etre for the website has been stifled.

Last year, I was not a member of OVAS - I had several other pressing issues to deal with, so I never got a membership. I did sell a few things through the website, though, which helped keep my aquarium friendships going.

It was on coming here to pay for a membership for the 2010-2011, that I discovered the change of rules for the club website.

Now that I am a paid member of the club again, i would like to encourage that the classified again be re-opened to all. Classified are a benefit to all members, whether the posters are members or not - and they show our willingness to embrace the larger aquarium-keeeper community here.

Thanks for reading my suggestions.

David Patte
President, OVAS, 2002

[Sharbuckle]

I Agree

[nelson]

I couldn't agree more David.....a poor decision.

Nelson Plamondon
Former OVAS Executive Chairperson

[mikerobart]

Agree 100%. There have been a lot of poor decisions made recently. I imagine a number of these decisions will have to be reversed if this website / club is to remain successful.

[TLe041]

Well said, dpatte!

Don't be surprised if the membership volume drops in the upcoming session. I was ready to join when August comes around but I've since reconsidered after reading about the recent changes.

[heater15]

i aswell agree

[aqua666]

I agree with you as well 

[93GTCANADA]

I also agree. Since these changes I don't even feel like coming on here anymore. I also don't agree in removing the off topic forum.

[beertech]

Very well said! And so far your comments haven't been "reported" and censored !
Hopefully, if everyone continues to make their opinions known in a calm, rational manner the executive may see the light and admit their mistakes.

Gord 

[bergenm]

I also agree, with the changes to the classifieds and the removal of the lounge, I now spend a fraction of the time I used to spend on this site - a very disappointing decision...

I personally feel that the classified were what attracted a lot of people to the site initially and that the lounge helped foster a sense of community.

[markw]

Very well said! And so far your comments haven't been "reported" and censored !
Hopefully, if everyone continues to make their opinions known in a calm, rational manner the executive may see the light and admit their mistakes.

Gord 

The actions that were taken by the Exec. were not done lightly nor with malice intended to disrupt the forum. There were just continual blatant violations of the rules and constant intervention by the Exec. to prevent further escalating problems. Sanctions were put in place to deal with individuals and they circumnavigated those. The worst two sections of the site were the two that had to be addressed, and its unfortunate that some feel the way they do, but I can't say it was a mistake.
The Exec. is not trying to destroy any community involvement in the hobby. On the contrary we are working diligently to try and attract new members to the club. We want to make the meetings a very valuable aspect of the club and encourage any hobbyist to become involved. There are still way to many that believe OVAS is just this website. The real education about the hobby is learned through direct interaction amongst fellow hobbyists and qualified speakers. We appreciate the fact that not everyone can attend our meetings, but we are always looking for new ways to bring people together to share the hobby. The website is a great source of individuals and their knowledge and experience, but unfortunately it is a venue for a very few who use it to personally attack, threaten and create hostility. The Exec. has to react in a responsible and appropriate manner. We purposely took these steps before the last election so that those who were opposed could express their views and either run for the many available positions or at least take the floor and express them.

[dpatte]

What the exec has decided is up to the exec to decide, and the members to judge. A good healthy dicussion of issues in the club is good for the whole club.

In my opinion, moderating the site is a necessary evil of any site, but blocking the classifieds is a totally unrelated issue which takes away from the opennesss of the site. The exec may have decided, but as the decision its not written into the constitution, it can be overturned without a constitutional crisis.

There will always be a few people who circumvent the rules, and cause problems, but its a shame that the decision to close certain forums from the public - when they actively help bring well-intended members and non-members together - was the action chosen as a solution to moderation issues.

[JetJumper]

+1 to OP

I think if you have a decent amount of posts on the forum 20+ or something like that then you should be able to post on the forum.  If your post count is high due to irrelevant posts then you don't deserve to but I don't think people are going to waste their time posting 20+ , 30+, 40+ posts just to post on the classifieds.  Personally my time is worth more then that.  I could just go to usedottawa, kijiji, craigslist, etc.. to post it.  So if someone truly contributes to the community then they should have earned the privilege to post in the classifieds.  Instead of having to pay for it.  

But thats just my Honest Opinion

[dpatte]

The disadvantage to requiring a certain number of posts is the same as I mentioned earlier. It blocked well intentioned potential members from meeting real members face-to-face.

If someone arrives in town, discovers the club site, and asks to buy some fish from the members, should he be told he isn't yet good enough to post?

If a person leaves the hobby and decides to list his items for sale, should the site members not be able to see his listings here?

Certainly, if someone is a persistant troublemaker on the site, he can be warnd to cool things down, but i feel its incorrect to punish every potential ovas member just because a few might be troublemakers.

[markw]

What the exec has decided is up to the exec to decide, and the members to judge. A good healthy dicussion of issues in the club is good for the whole club.

In my opinion, moderating the site is a necessary evil of any site, but blocking the classifieds is a totally unrelated issue which takes away from the opennesss of the site. The exec may have decided, but as the decision its not written into the constitution, it can be overturned without a constitutional crisis.

There will always be a few people who circumvent the rules, and cause problems, but its a shame that the decision to close certain forums from the public - when they actively help bring well-intended members and non-members together - was the action chosen as a solution to moderation issues.

I absolutely agree that its unfortunate to take the actions that were necessary. Moderating the site has become a constant, tireless and painful experience for those of us on the Exec. who didn't sign up to babysit a website. We've spent hours and hours at Exec. meetings trying to deal with it, we've had to call the police on several occasions to deal with death threats, we've had to spend valuable time away from out hobby, family even workplace trying to keep everything in order. No one on this Exec. can afford the time necessary to deal with these moderation issues. What's hard to believe is how some individuals behave dealing with something as simple as a tropical fish club.
We've lost some really good people recently who were absolutely dedicated to help run this club. I know that many of them just couldn't deal with the constant frustration of the few who feel obligated to cause problems on this site.

[dpatte]

I absolutely agree that its unfortunate to take the actions that were necessary.

Though I'm sure the executive felt that some solution to site moderation was required, I'm not convinced that the correct solution was taken. I hope that the executive is open to listening to other suggestions from the members. I'd be pleased to be invited to an executive meeting some time to discuss the problems with the site, and come back later with some possible other solutions.

[93GTCANADA]

why weren't those few ip's not banned and problem solved. If you guys can't handle the work load I am sure a lot of people on here would give some time up to moderate some of the forums.

[dpatte]

why weren't those few ip's not banned and problem solved. If you guys can't handle the work load I am sure a lot of people on here would give some time up to moderate some of the forums.

You can't just ban ips. Most internet accounts that people use in the area come through providers that use a large block of ip# that are shared amonst the users. Banning an ip may actually ban several other users from the same provider.

[93GTCANADA]

not my problem lol. But honestly if they need help to moderate they should just ask. That's what other forums do.

[Jeff1192]

Why do I get the sinking feeling that this discussion is never going to go away. Every month or so another thread like this pops up. In my opinion it has been discussed to death. The Exec did what they thought was best to better the web-site and thus the club. Not everyone agrees with the decision but it has been done.  If you really don't agree with it you can always run for the exec next time and change it. However, this decision was made before the recent elections and I think everyone involved in the decision that ran for another term on the Exec was re-elected so I think most members agree with the decision made. I think that the best thing for the club at this point is to move on.

Just my 2 cents.

Jeff