Issue with Monti-Caps

[Rybren]

I have four Monti-Cap colonies.  In three of the four, the corals are experiencing a loss of tissue.  The forth seems fine - for the moment.

From my research, it seems as though the most likely culprit is the Monti-eating nudibranch; however, search as I might, I just can't seem to see any (or any other organism on them).  I've looked using a magnifying glass both with the lights on, and with a flashlight after the lights have been off for a while.

Any suggestions?  I've attached a few pics.

Thanks.

[Hookup]

What's your Mg at?  It's a common culprit for cap issues. 

[Rybren]

Mg is sitting at 1350.  Alk is 9dkh and Ca is at 440.  All of the other corals seem fine.

[redbelly]

Thats definately not montipora eating nudi damage.
Nudi's do love caps but they start at the base and eat there way towards the outside. Where they have eaten goes completely white.

Your caps are bleaching out so something is definately off.

[beertech]

Have you changed any bulbs lately?

[Hookup]

Mg is sitting at 1350.  Alk is 9dkh and Ca is at 440.  All of the other corals seem fine.

Welcome to my world.   Basically similar params and I have similar monti cap dmg too..  Did you recently change phons ban or/ and carbon?

How stable have you been.  1-10 where 10 is rock stable and 1 is a yo-yo

What about salinity? 

What about pH?


These are some of the things where I've been struggling so maybe there's something in common.

[Rybren]

I changed bulbs out in early Dec.  I'm running an ATI Sunpower 4x 54W and changed one bulb every few days.  I also raised the height of the fixture and over the course of a couple of weeks, gradually lowered it.

I change carbon and GFO every 3-4 weeks.  This started prior to the last change out.

Params have always been rock steady (so 9-10 on the Tim scale)

SG is a steady 35ppt; pH 8.2

The one thing that I did change was that I started running biopellets back in October.  Initially they were running in a media bag under the skimmer output.  I picked up a reactor over the Christmas holidays so for the last month or so, they've been in the reactor.  Now that I think of it, the degradation really accelerated at about the same time. 

I may pull the pellets offline and see if anything changes.

[Hookup]

Well I'm also at a bit of a loss.

If I can turn mine around I'll share any changes


Btw. Is anything else suffering?  Most of my stuff is holding strong. Some LPS issues with bleaching but I think that is cause my nutrient levels have been dropping and they are starving.

[kole18]

If i was you i would take it off the bio-pellets, same issue that i have a few months ago. it bleached my sps, I'm not saying isn't good to used it in reef tank some reefkeepers have successfully of using this pellets others don't & i'm one of those guys who had not able to keep in my tank. the first week it gives me a cyano outbreak, then i'd noticed my sps bottom base its bleaching slowly something had been eating bit by bit & i'd tried to dip nothing in there. i took it off my bp & install my gfo it stop from bleaching. they say on this bp you have to feed your tank atleast 3x or maybe more to kick in this pellets. but for me this isn't worth it , i would rather to go back & install my gfo, carbon. if you were trying to reduced your nitrates i would suggest to use a cheatos & sanbed much safer than bp

[Rybren]

Btw. Is anything else suffering?  Most of my stuff is holding strong. Some LPS issues with bleaching but I think that is cause my nutrient levels have been dropping and they are starving.

The LPS are doing well as are the other SPS.

they say on this bp you have to feed your tank atleast 3x or maybe more to kick in this pellets.

I feed A LOT!  My fish are all big, fat, pigs!

I also run carbon & GFO 24/7 and have chaeto in the fuge (no DSB).  I haven't had any issue with cyano & judging by the bubble algae & macro growth in the tank, I definately don't have an ULNS tank. 

[redbelly]

What type of Bio pellets are you running?

[Rybren]

I'm running 200ml of the Two Little Fishies brand in a Phosban 150.  This is roughly half the recommended amount for my water volume. (They state that 400ml should be used for 100G and I figure that my total volume is about 80-90G)

[kole18]

I've used this 2 Little fish BP for almost 3 months, along w/ zeobak & vinegar to dose in oder to kick in the BP. but didn't last though i had to pull this off because got really major issue of cyano as well sps slowly bleaching from the bottom base it really hurts you those are the nice one sps colony. i know its always something is not right but thank god some corals had been recovery now for the last few months.

[redbelly]

To me it looks like your system has gone too nutrient poor, or at least potentially nutrient poor too quick for the montipora.

The acropora in the back ground do not have the color of a nutrient poor system so I would say it may have been too fast.

That super pastel color of the montipora definately means your in the low nutrient range but it may have gone too far or too fast for them imo. This is actually the color that red monti cap are in the wild when they are not near the coast where humans pollute the water....

I dont run bio-pellets on my systems at this time, but I didnt think you were supposed to run carbon and gfo and the same time as biopellets.

[kole18]

i think to run a bp you gotta dose some additives like zeobak or they say to feed your bp in order to kick in the bp. i remember buying zeobak & dosing inside of reactors i even try to dose a vinegar. but anyway it gives me a good & bad result. i ended up loosing some nice pcs of sps colony & on the good result other corals like lps some sps colors came back but then other of my sps still continueing slowly bleached from the bottom base. i decided to pull off the bp a few months ago i ended having gfo & cheatos a sanbed in my sump as well lr's,  the result nitrates slowly drop down to 0.

[Rybren]

I definately don't think that I'm nutrient poor - or even on the verge of nutrient welfare.  That was the big reason for trying the pellets.  I may have reduced the levels too quickly and will try to reverse things.  I know that the jury is still out on the pellets and there are may recommended practices - fast tumble, slow tumble, no tumble, GAC & GFO, no GAC &GFO, etc.

Those two Acros in the background were brown when I picked them up over a year ago, and they're still brown, although one has been developing nice blue tips.  I have another acro that has good bright green to it and another very small frag that is very blue.  I do suspect, however, that my overall nutrient levels are too high for good acro colouration.

Here's the latest FTS - overall I'm pretty happy and will be even happier if I can reverse the Monti decline.

[redbelly]

I have not met a single person that has been successful running biopellets in the long run (over 1 year) on a full reef.

I know Adam (no idea his online name) was running the biopellets on his reef and with everyone else that I have met and/or read about online the exact same thing happened in your tank that happened in his. Montipora were hit the worste, birdsnest also suffered terrible, millipora super slow stn'd and the acropora never really colored up. Infact he said that his acropora colored up better once he took the biopellets off line! He also reports PE was pretty poor, but the best when he used reeflux 12k lamps and was dosing with FAuna Marin Organic, MinS and Amin.

I wish I could say I had heard different reviews and reports from people that have used biopellets but this seems to be a common result with people that have used them and are approaching the 8-12 month mark.

There are so many factors here as you pointed out with respect to ideal flow rates through the pellets, plus each type of pellet is different, media vs no media, etc

IMO if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
And thats what biopellets are with respect to creating a ULNS.
Yes they do reduce nitrates and p04 but IMO they do not work for creating a true ULNS.
If you want a true UNLS you need to either run a Zeovite or UltraLith system. And yes these system do require dailey dosing and plunging of the media. Dosing of everything but the bacteria source can be automated with Ultra Lith but not Zeolith (quantities dosed with zeolith are too small for a dosing pump). For plunging the media I have an idea that I would really like to try out shortly to automate this that would be super cheap and easy. Just waiting to setup our dedicated sps coral beds before I mod me reactor cause there is just no way that I will plunge the media daily....

[kole18]

im one of those guys who had a bp for 3 months really almost wiped out my entire tank. theres one guy from RC's his from EU got successfull running this BP in his tank not really know his name but you can tell his tank its so amazing "krystofz" im not sure if this is his user name at RC's. i remember his tank was choosen for " tank of the month". im take a look at this on rc's tonight.

[Hookup]

mine are stable and healing again...  why?  water changes are the only thing that i've done...

it's not much, but there you have it... something was in my water column that my monti's didn't like (again) and the water changes took care of it... i'm on my 3rd one in 6 days tonight so it's a bit early to be 100% certain but i believe i am now headed i a good direction.

[Rybren]

Patrick,

I'm pretty happy with the tank - it's not perfect, but I like it.  My reasons for giving the pellets a try was to simply reduce nutrient levels somewhat without really achieving ULNS.  As you know, the pellets ARE SUPPOSED to promote extra bacterial growth which, in turn, consume more nutrients.  This technology has been in use in the waste water management industry for years and it seems to be quite successful.  Unfortunately, as you've mentioned, it can also have a detrimental effect on our tanks.  Perhaps we're not using the technology correctly or maybe it has some unknown side effect on our corals that we just haven't discovered yet.

I thought that it was worth giving them a shot.  Guess I was wrong, but if we never fail, then we never learn.

My Birdsnest is also starting to decline - less PE and I'm pretty sure that the water is too clean for the Elegance, because it is also showing signs of strain.

I've decided to stop running the pellets.  Now the question is....  Do I remove them all at once or do I do it gradually by removing some pellets over a period of time?