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goldfish lying on bottom of tank ** super urgent

Started by cindi, December 18, 2014, 10:08:29 PM

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cindi

Hi.
I have an approx. 3 inch white goldfish who has been bottom sitting since Monday. I immediately tested water to discover the ammonia had increased to .25ppm.
Nitrites 0, NItrates 5, ph 8 (it has been that since I got the tank in February).
I do 30-35 % water changes weekly.
He shares the 55 g. tank with 3 other goldfish smaller than him. They are acting fine. I had been planning to get them a new tank in the new year as they grow, but obviously I need it ASAP now that this has happened.

I did 35% water change daily Monday/Tues/WEd. but couldn't get ammonia down below .25 .
So I got a quarantine tank set up (10 gallons)  -  I used about 1/3 of the fish's usual tank  (55 gallon) water, then added new water , with prime.  I also added a small filter (that I had extra and was being used on big tank).   ** * I have now got the big tank's ammonia down to 0 for the remaining fish, but in the meantime I set up the quarantine tank for the super sick fish.

He's been in the small tank since Wednesday evening.  

The ammonia is now 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 5-10, pH 8

If I were to leave him alone, he would be lying on the bottom, on his side, upside down or upright, but I rigged up a harness to keep him upright.
He isn't wanting to move.Doesn't try. He is just lying in his harness, not moving, just breathing gently.

At first I assumed ammonia poisoning, but his behaviour hasn't got any better.

I thought it might be swim bladder - he hasn't been eating since at least Sunday....and even when he did, he didn't eat much.
I used to feed a pinch daily.  He  has no bloating.  He did not respond to my attempts at feeding him a flake by hand tonight.

And then I wondered about oxygen deprivation? He had 3 filters running in the big tank, and then an air hose and air decoration.

In the quarantine tank he has just got the small filter.  (20 gallon filter) . NO air pumps.

On Monday when he began to bottom lie, I was able to notice that it seems as though his eye sockets are hollow.....is that possible? It would explain why he didn't eat much.
BUt how does that happen?

Anyhow, symptoms wise - he is super lethargic (understatement), not moving, but breathing gently.
He doesn't have anything funny looking on his scales/fins....no markings . No bloating. No significant weight loss. But
His skin does look a bit translucent in the past few days and his gill area looks more red than before....but not brown....
He also looks as though he is yellowing - like a human who is jaundiced.

I haven't tried to give him peas, or done any medicating or salt .
I just wanted to see if changing his water would be good.


Do you have any ideas whatsoever?

I  filmed a little video if you'd like to see him.  Let me know if you do.  Apparently it was too long to attach to this note.
I realize that I'm asking a lot of you, but I am not feeling confident that I am diagnosing the problem  correctly, or dealing with it properly.

Thanks in advance for any ideas you have.

** If anybody knows anywhere in the Ottawa area where I could bring him for assessment or assistance, I'd really appreciate it!


sanny

A 55 gallon is plenty for three goldfish that are 3" at the moment. The question here is, what kind of filter are you using? Do you have enough aeration in your tank? Let us know and well be happy to help you out.

cindi

Hi
Thank you for getting back to me.
I'm not at home and can't see the filters but I think the brand is aquaclear(?).
On the 55 g tank I had a filter rated for 70g, as well as one rated for  50g and 20g - just cases I had an extra one I wasn't using.
I definitely missed a weekly water change - I usually do 25-30% change weekly. That big tank I now fine with its water parameters.

But re: the sick fish . I moved him to a 10g tank (and took the 20g filter off the big tank) on Wednesday night.
The water parameters are good/ ammonia and nitrites 0, nitrates 5-10, ph 8 (that's how it's been since February ).

He is listless, not moving, not eating, not voiding . Breathing slowly out of his mouth. Some gill action.
I have him in a harness to keep him upright order would  be lying on his side .

His skin is yellowish (kind of like a jaundiced human looks), the area arou his head is turning translucent, gill areas red.
Both eye sockets appear empty .

Today at noon I added a teaspoon of the aquarium salt.

I hope that won't hurt.

The staff at big Al's suggested salt, medication or euthanasia. I thought I would try salt first.

Really feeling awful about this guy.

cindi

#3
Sadly, I returned home this evening to find my fish had died. I had high hopes that the salt treatment would make him feel better so it is devastating to find him dead.  I feel just awful about this.

My question is:  Was it likely ammonia poisoning that led to his downfall?  Are his tank mates at risk, even though I have now made sure their water parameters are correct? (They are acting normally).  Is there something else that could have led to his demise?
Perhaps my aeration is not adequate?
I have the three filters / one bubble air hose/one air ornament.

I really couldn't handle having more of them die.

Terribly big lesson learned - never, ever, ever, miss a water change.

robt18

Late post but hopefully a some help....

.25ppm of ammonia will never cause ammonia poisoning. This small amount could have been caused by adding water conditioner while doing a water change (converts cloramine into ammonia and more), and more than anything else, just because goldfish are messy. Aquaclear filters aren't the best in terms of bio-filtration, you'd be better off using a canister filter, but use one that's balanced between bio and mechanical filtration - goldfish create a heavy bioload and need a big filter. I'd recommend a Marineland C360 - rated for 100 gallons.

This also could have been caused by diet (goldfish do best with a veggie based diet and have essentially no stomach... it's hard for them to get all the nutrients they need) or, if these are your basic feeder goldfish or a "lower quality" stock, I'd guess it was caused by an infection, probably bacterial, because feeder goldfish really aren't bred to have great immune systems or longevity. If they contract an infection it can be really hard to fight off.

Hopefully this can shed some light on what may have happened.

cindi

Thank you so much for your feedback.
I really have been puzzled by his death.
The remaining fish have been appearing fine. All parameters are good.
Water changes are weekly.

I will follow your suggestion re: a different filter. That could be a big help.

I have no idea what quality of goldfish they are. Essentially, someone dumped them in a shallow pond at my workplace, and I took them out one winter years ago because I didn't want them to die. They had been fine ever since, until now. I wouldn't know how the dead one got an infection, if it did.

They have eaten goldfish flakes once a day for years. 

Thank you kindly for your thoughts about my fish. I appreciate your efforts at helping me in the future. I really don't want to have another fish go through such a struggle again!


robt18

Sounds like they were likely feeders/comet goldfish - it wasn't anything you did in this case. Unfortunately, they're bred to be produced in huge quantities to be grow to a certain size then fed off. Some turn out ok, but long term health isn't the objective. If the other two are doing well then you must be doing something right. I'd still check in on a larger filter though, for long term health of the tank.