Cyano woes

[101DalmatianMollies]

Hey everybody;
I'm currently battling cyano in my 33 gallon. I've been treating with hydrogen peroxide as per advice from Critter Jungle. However I treat for so long, then stop in the name of allowing my plants to bounce back a bit before continuing treatment. So this is taking a considerable amount of time. I've been battling it for about 3 months now.

That being said everything seems ok otherwise. The fish are happy, eating, thriving. I want to add a few more fish to the tank... But I don't know if that's wise.

Any thoughts? Any advice? Thanks!

[George2]

A couple years ago I had problems with blue-green algae and I tried all of the usual recommended treatments but nothing really worked all that well because it would always come back a little while later. Eventually tried a product called Maracyn I found at PetSmart. The active ingredient is Erythromycin (an antibiotic), which completely eradicated the blue-green algae from my aquarium. I have not had it since then.

[Mike L]

  I run cichlid tanks only with some low light plants in some so take this advice accordingly.
To my knowledge algae blooms are result of too much nitrates and or phosphates both of which are controlled with water changes. There are removers to be had that can be put into the filters as well.
I have always found success with water changes and removing as much as I can when doing them.

Where is the tank located. Is it near a window. If it is cover it during the day.  How often and how much water are you changing. Run you lights no more then 5-6 hours a day. Max.
There are others on this site that will have more knowledge on this subject. I'm sure more advice will be forthcoming.
Mike

[Mike L]

 If you use the antibiotic make sure to remove your bio-media first as they will kill the bacteria. And when finished treatment use carbon to help remove the anibiotics. Again increase water changes.

[101DalmatianMollies]

The unfortunate part about cyano is it's not a true algae, but a bacteria that behaves like an algae. The hydrogen peroxide works well but needs continuous treatment which slowly kills my plants.

Other than the cyano I have no other algae in my tank. My bristlenose keeps a clean house, it's only cyano that I'm fighting because after a while of using H2O2 it completely disappears visibly. However when I stop, it creeps right back.

From what I understand is the only other way to get rid of it is to completely black out the tank. The ornaments I had that were covered in it, I kept in a dark closet and the cyano died off of those ornaments. If I black out my tank, my plants will die, and all it takes is a sliver of light to keep cyano going.

I do worry about using antibiotics... I am familiar with erythromycin... But of course you run the risk of killing all bacteria as antibiotics aren't highly specific. At least with the H2O2 it just breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen.

[Al]

I strongly disagree with your statement about antibiotics not being highly specific and killing all bacteria. Most antibiotics are developed with specificity in mind. Erythromycin for example, is mostly used for gram positive infections and is not that effective for gram negative infections, or bacteria. It is a narrow spectrum antibiotic, meaning you use it when you know exactly the infection (bug) you are fighting. By using a narrow spectrum, you have less other beneficial bacteria being killed off and / or causing bacterial resistance. Where you don't know the specific cause of an infection, you would generally use a broad spectrum antibiotic, like a shotgun approach - this is a pretty simplified explanation.. The nitrifying bacteria in our aquariums - substrate, glass, filters etc are mostly gram negative and there is a pretty good safety factor with erythromycin (mostly used for gram+) used at proper dosage levels and according to label instructions. The effect on your filter's bio would be negligible IMO and from my usage at different times, it never caused me any problems in my freshwater aquariums which are usually pretty well stocked with fish. Use to label indications, test your water and I believe erythro can be your friend against BGA.

[101DalmatianMollies]

I do actually need to tip my hat to you Al as you are correct (not that you need me to tell you that). My textbook knowledge of antibiotics has gone by the wayside over the years in favour of my practical experience with them - in that often we prescribe a probiotic alongside an antibiotic as antibiotics tend to wreak havoc with the gut flora. You are very much correct though, and it was ignorant of me to say otherwise. Now that you say it, I realize what I said wasn't correct.

As for H2O2 vs. Antibiotics; has anyone had any success with H2O2? I only ask as at one fish retail location I mention cyano and the immediate response is erythro. I mention cyano at an alternate retailer and am told either H2O2 or told nothing. I guess it comes down to efficacy and time, which would make erythro the best of both options. I'm just curious at this stage.

[George2]

When I used antibiotics, I did not notice any impact on the "good" bacteria in my aquarium. The ammonia, nitirites, etc. were all 0 the entire time.

How have you been using the H2O2? Are you spot treating patches of the blue-green algae or are you using it throughout your tank? Have you checked to see if it has any impact on the "good" bacteria? I am curious about that myself.

[101DalmatianMollies]

The recommendation I was given was to use 1 ml per gallon, once daily, and to dose in front of the filter. I was told that since it breaks down into hydrogen and oxygen, that it wasn't harmful. You do raise a good point though - with antibiotics having more specificity, and H2O2 being more broad, is the latter the more harmful?

It has done a number on my plants I'll attest to that. My valisinaria isn't overly happy. Although my Java moss is thrilled! at least... It hasn't seemed to have inhibited growth.

What I've noticed is after I dose the tank, the cyano disappears and the bottom feeders start cleaning a lot more enthusiastically.

[reefdava16]

What are you fertilizing the tank with? Sounds like u need more KNO3 in the water. I was battling it for a while and tried everything until I got my fertilizing in check, I now have none visible for quite some time.
By using the hydrogen peroxide method, you are just treating the symptoms and not the underlying cause of the cyano, once that is discovered and corrected it will stop coming back.

[Jeff1192]

In my past battles with it I found the only true solution was to figure out what was causing it and do a blackout for a few days to truly remove it once and for all

[Mike L]

 One of the common suggestions is to increase water flow in the tank as well. Just a thought.

[101DalmatianMollies]

What are you fertilizing the tank with?

I am using Seachem Flourish liquid as well as Flourish tabs. However I was bad and wasn't fertilizing as well as I should, and now am on a daily schedule with the Flourish liquid (divided the weekly dose into 7 daily doses) and replaced the Flourish tab that had long dissolved. My Amazons are so happy they're practically standing up straight! I am going to keep up the fertilizing and hopefully that will help.

One of the common suggestions is to increase water flow in the tank as well. Just a thought.

I have increased my Aquaclear filter to it's maximum amount, and it's rated for a 50 gallon tank and I have a 33 gallon tank. I also added a bubbler, because I love the bubbles, and to increase water flow. Hopefully this helps!

In my past battles with it I found the only true solution was to figure out what was causing it and do a blackout for a few days to truly remove it once and for all

This is on my mind as well. I've spoken extensively with a more experienced fish hobbyist than I, and am thinking of trying a 2 day full complete black out. I've learned that the sole food source for cyano is light, so have to starve it by blacking it out. I think I'll get my plants a little happier, so that they can survive the 2 days of darkness.

Thanks everyone!! I will keep you posted on the progress! I have noticed a slow down in production of cyano, so fingers crossed it'll shut down further. Thanks again!

[charlie]

Hello, some great points on treating the symptoms, but as suggested before the root cause needs to be identified .
To do so, we would need some info on the set up
Type & wattage of lights - How long
Fertilizers used & how they are used ( saw the bit you posted)
name of plants
Non co2 /Co2 & how
Nitrate levels ,phosphate  levels
& anything else you can share
These would help greatly in trying to narrowing down the cause.
Regards

[101DalmatianMollies]

Hello, some great points on treating the symptoms, but as suggested before the root cause needs to be identified .
To do so, we would need some info on the set up
Type & wattage of lights - How long
Fertilizers used & how they are used ( saw the bit you posted)
name of plants
Non co2 /Co2 & how
Nitrate levels ,phosphate  levels
& anything else you can share
These would help greatly in trying to narrowing down the cause.
Regards

Type and wattage of lights: Fluorescent bulbs one daylight and one grow bulb. I can't think of my max wattage at the moment, as I was limited on length... which I think was 24". The brand is ocean sun (or floral sun..) and tropic sun. I had them changed I think 3 months ago. I'll need to double check.

Fertilizers Used and How they are used: Seachem Flourish liquid 0.71 mls daily (recently started doing that as of Thursday March 5th)

Name of plants: Vallisneria (one large with 3 runners), 2 amazon swords, java moss (a copious amount!)

CO2 - Non

Levels done as of February 28 2015:

• Temperature: 78 degrees
• Ammonia: 0ppm
• Nitrite: 0ppm
• Nitrate: 15 ppm
• pH: 7.4
• GH: 80ppm
• KH: 40ppm

I don't have a test kit for phosphorous and haven't had it tested. Using Ottawa tap water, treating it with Tetra Aquasafe Water Conditioner

[charlie]

Type and wattage of lights: Fluorescent bulbs one daylight and one grow bulb. I can't think of my max wattage at the moment, as I was limited on length... which I think was 24". The brand is ocean sun (or floral sun..) and tropic sun. I had them changed I think 3 months ago. I'll need to double check.

Fertilizers Used and How they are used: Seachem Flourish liquid 0.71 mls daily (recently started doing that as of Thursday March 5th)

Name of plants: Vallisneria (one large with 3 runners), 2 amazon swords, java moss (a copious amount!)

CO2 - Non

Levels done as of February 28 2015:

• Temperature: 78 degrees
• Ammonia: 0ppm
• Nitrite: 0ppm
• Nitrate: 15 ppm
• pH: 7.4
• GH: 80ppm
• KH: 40ppm

I don't have a test kit for phosphorous and haven't had it tested. Using Ottawa tap water, treating it with Tetra Aquasafe Water Conditioner

Are those lights T5 , T5HO, T8?
Flourish, which one Flourish Nitrate, Flourish Comprehensive, Flourish Trace?
Depending on which Flourish you are using , that Nitrate level may be telling us something.
Regards

[101DalmatianMollies]

The lights are... I think T8's - I'm really limited in choice because of my hood size and the hardware in it, so I just remember they weren't the most ideal.

Flourish Comprehensive.

The Nitrate has only been that level since I've had plants. The testing instructions and anyone I've talked to have had no issue with the 15ppm, they said it was because I had plants. Thoughts?

[charlie]

My thought is the tank is either is being over fed / heavy bio load/infrequent water changes, reason for this train of thought is as follows - based on info you have provided, there is no supplementing of Nitrate despite  flourish states it has Nitrate , it is very minimal in the big picture, so with a level of 15ppm of Nitrate, it may be coming from husbandry of the tank Which may be carrying lot of Organic waste = Cyano, there may also other contributing factors, BTW adding plants does not equate to high nitrates, it will help in lower Nitrates as the plants use it as part of it`s nourishment.
The plants you listed are all slow growing plants so the need & uptake is slow.
I suggest, cleaning your filter, cut back your feeding ( if you are over feeding) & frequent water changes, after you do a 3 - 5 day black out & a large water change at the end of the 3-5 day black out, not saying it is the cure or the main reason but that will rule out the things I mentioned.
Regards

[exv152]

In addition to ^ I would also hit the algae with a few extra punches like; H2O2, before & after the 3-4 day blackout, as well as some excel/glut. If it comes back you know you didn't address the root cause and you can then repeat by addressing another potential root cause.

[101DalmatianMollies]

My thought is the tank is either is being over fed / heavy bio load/infrequent water changes, reason for this train of thought is as follows - based on info you have provided, there is no supplementing of Nitrate despite  flourish states it has Nitrate , it is very minimal in the big picture, so with a level of 15ppm of Nitrate, it may be coming from husbandry of the tank Which may be carrying lot of Organic waste = Cyano, there may also other contributing factors, BTW adding plants does not equate to high nitrates, it will help in lower Nitrates as the plants use it as part of it`s nourishment.
The plants you listed are all slow growing plants so the need & uptake is slow.
I suggest, cleaning your filter, cut back your feeding ( if you are over feeding) & frequent water changes, after you do a 3 - 5 day black out & a large water change at the end of the 3-5 day black out, not saying it is the cure or the main reason but that will rule out the things I mentioned.
Regards

I could possibly be over feeding. I'll cut back. I was doing weekly water changes for a while, but then went down to monthly. I'll increase back to weekly.

Will my plans survive a 3 day black out? I was only aiming for a 2 day black out.

In addition to ^ I would also hit the algae with a few extra punches like; H2O2, before & after the 3-4 day blackout, as well as some excel/glut. If it comes back you know you didn't address the root cause and you can then repeat by addressing another potential root cause.

exel/glut?