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Ammonia or nitrite poisoning?

Started by Caitiepi, September 10, 2015, 08:17:27 PM

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Caitiepi

Hey there,

I am fairly new to the hobby so be gentle :p
My aquarium has been running about a little over a month and I am below my maximum bio load. Yesterday I tested my ph and it was around 7-7.6. My desired ph is anywhere between 6.5-6.9. I did a 10% water change in my 46 gallon aquarium yesterday after cleaning the gravel. (Yes I treated the water before adding it to the aquarium) Today I have noticed that my Kribensis is gasping and staying around the bottom of the aquarium and not overly enthused during feeding while all my other fish appear fine. From what I have read these are classic signs of ammonia or nitrite poisoning. Today I have done another 10% water change. All I'm wondering is if I'm on the right track or if I'm way off on how to fix the ph.
I have looked around online but everybody seems to have different answers and this forum came highly recommended. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!!
90 gallon community tank:
Red Rainbowfish
Boesemani Rainbowfish
Roseline Sharks
Rainbow Shark
Rosy Danios
Zebra Danios
Siamese Algae Eater
Electric Blue Acara
Green Severums
Rotkeil Severum
Black Convict Cichlid

bitterman

Do you have test kits? You should get an Ammonia and Nitrite test kits.

Was you cycle finished? I suspect your cycle is not complete and your Nitrite is spiking but without test kits, hard to say. Ammonia could be high also depending on your water change schedule. %10 week is most the time not enough. If you have a trusted friend with an aquarium, you could get some seeded filter media to also help rectify the issue faster.

How many fish and when did you add them to the tank in comparison to the cycle? Most the time you cycle a tank (can occur in a month sometime can tank longer seen upto 2 months) Then gradually ad 1-2 fish ever few weeks to a month till tank is stocked. This gives the nutrify bacteria time to catch up to deal with the load.

What type of filtration you have on the tank. It is also possible your filtration just won't handle the load for the number of fish in the tank, but I feel with the limited time the tank has been running your cycle is most likely not complete yet. This often happens and lots of fish stores try to sell products with bacteria in a bottle and say it solves this issue. It really does not. Only one I know of that actually did work was biospira, but apparently the formula has changed and seen reports no longer works.

I would do a very large water change 50% or more 75% might be better (If you really think or prove its ammonia/nitrite poisoning ). Make sure you are using prime or some other water conditioner also (prime is one of the best). I like to run the water and let it degass for a bit with the dechlorinator and get temp matching your tank before adding it. This help decrease ph swings from the water as it degases.

Bruce

Caitiepi

Thank you for your reply,
The only test kit I have is for ph. Guess I'll go out and grab one for nitrite and ammonia, to see if either of those are the problem.
I have 7 fish- none bigger than an inch and a half. They were introduced in twos  (One introduction of three) over a period of a month. Tank had bacteria added to it (for a fishless cycle) a few days before any fish were introduced.
I have an Aqueon QuietFlow 30, which is for a 30-45 gallon aquarium. I believe it's what came with the aquarium (I got the whole set up second hand).
I do use a dechlorinater, and it let the water sit for an hour before I add it to the tank.
The thing that confuses me is that everybody was fine before I did my last water change, but proper amount of dechlorinater was used and water was same temp as the tank water.
If it isn't ammonia or nitrite poisoning any idea what it could be? All other fish still seem perfectly happy and healthy.
90 gallon community tank:
Red Rainbowfish
Boesemani Rainbowfish
Roseline Sharks
Rainbow Shark
Rosy Danios
Zebra Danios
Siamese Algae Eater
Electric Blue Acara
Green Severums
Rotkeil Severum
Black Convict Cichlid

bitterman

It takes time for the different levels to get to the point they can cause issues.

There are 2 main groups of nutrify bacteria you are dealing with.

First group converts Ammonia to Nitrite
Second group converts Nitrite to Nitrate.

The second group take longer to ramp.

this pic might make things clearer


On of the common problems is that with too many fish too fast or to heavy feeding and the nitrite gets too high and will stall your cycle. When this occurs your nitrite just keeps going up. Its very common with a new aquarium. One the reason some people give up at first.

Smart move getting a test kit. I think a Water change would help regardless and don't get discouraged.

Bruce

Caitiepi

Well, the Krib died while I was at work, after doing a water change. Everybody else seems fine, but I'm going to take a sample of water in to the LFS and see what they recommend I do to keep everybody else happy.
Thanks for your suggestions Bruce, I'm glad somebody took the time to try to help! :)
90 gallon community tank:
Red Rainbowfish
Boesemani Rainbowfish
Roseline Sharks
Rainbow Shark
Rosy Danios
Zebra Danios
Siamese Algae Eater
Electric Blue Acara
Green Severums
Rotkeil Severum
Black Convict Cichlid

bitterman

Sorry the krib died always sad too loose a fish :(

Keep up with the water changes... might need to do a change every day depending on levels for a few days.

Bruce

Mike L

Sorry to hear about your troubles. It is always a huge learning curve. Over time you will be able to tell when things are not right with your fish. Bruce advice to get a test kit is sound as is the water changes. You will notice an almost immediate  change in how your fish act. Swimming with attitude and wanting to eat. If your not .using prime or other similar  water treatment that locks ammonia and nitriwte I suggest you try them. Also if you need some filter material from am established tank I  would be glad to offer you some

Caitiepi

Just got back from LFS, the problem is not ammonia, it is nitrite. The guy I was talking too said almost verbatim what Bruce did. Cycle was not complete before too many fish were added- nitrite is starting to change into nitrate. So water change, water change, water change. Also I was told to use ph down because my ph is 7.4 and the Ram needs is to be around 6.4-6.8. So I followed the directions that I was given and hopefully that will make a difference!
I do have one more question: I have put in ph down but have not done a water change yet today- should I still do one today or wait and start them again tomorrow because I've already added chemicals to it?
I will be buying myself a master test kit as soon as they are re-stocked at LFS.
Thanks very much for the offer Mike! I think for now, I will hold off- all the fish in the tank are eating and swimming around fine- it was only the one that died that was showing any stress symptoms.
90 gallon community tank:
Red Rainbowfish
Boesemani Rainbowfish
Roseline Sharks
Rainbow Shark
Rosy Danios
Zebra Danios
Siamese Algae Eater
Electric Blue Acara
Green Severums
Rotkeil Severum
Black Convict Cichlid

Mike L

 The rams will not suffer from the pH you currently have. It is far more important to get you cycle complete and get water balance. Get the water to where it needs to be and leave it for a time and then make changes. Fish are very sensitive to quick or drastic change and will live quite well out of there natural water perameters and thrive. Go slow do the water changes as suggested. This might take 2 to 3 months. Then make your changes gradually.

sanny

I have a master test kit that was barely used for free. If your interested pm me :)

Caitiepi

I have read and been told the same thing about fish being able to survive in a wider range of ph than you'd expect. So then focus on fixing nitrite and nitrate first, then after those levels have stabilized worry about the ph. The guy at LFS did say to slowly being the ph down- by.2 a day (two drops per 10 gallons).
Also what are your opinions on something like Api Nitro Zorb? Or using aquarium salt, or stress zyme or adding more bacteria from something like quick start? I would imagine that lowering the levels naturally would be the least stressful for the fish?
Sorry for all the questions ha ha
90 gallon community tank:
Red Rainbowfish
Boesemani Rainbowfish
Roseline Sharks
Rainbow Shark
Rosy Danios
Zebra Danios
Siamese Algae Eater
Electric Blue Acara
Green Severums
Rotkeil Severum
Black Convict Cichlid

bitterman

Quote from: Caitiepi on September 12, 2015, 09:17:04 PM
I have read and been told the same thing about fish being able to survive in a wider range of ph than you'd expect. So then focus on fixing nitrite and nitrate first, then after those levels have stabilized worry about the ph. The guy at LFS did say to slowly being the ph down- by.2 a day (two drops per 10 gallons).
Best to leave the ph alone... especially when other things are going on. LFS often say buy this lower your ph when may not be really needed as it means they are selling something... and this you must buy regularly as it is disposable/ you use it up.

Quote from: Caitiepi on September 12, 2015, 09:17:04 PM
Also what are your opinions on something like Api Nitro Zorb?
I'm not a fan of using nitro zorb or products like that. You best option is actually you cheapest. Talk Mike up on give you some used media to seed your tank. The problme with these chemical filtration methods they take things away from the nutrifying bacteria so they can't do there job and grow the colony that being said they can be helpfull in emergency situations like noticing you cycle has gone bad and you are scheduled to go on a business trip you can cancel... and nobody can tend your tanks to do water changes.

Quote from: Caitiepi on September 12, 2015, 09:17:04 PM
Or using aquarium salt, or stress zyme or adding more bacteria from something like quick start? I would imagine that lowering the levels naturally would be the least stressful for the fish?
Sorry for all the questions ha ha

The bacteria stuff you buy as I said really does not work. Have you cut feeding the tank to say once every 2-3 days? This will help.

Get some used filter media to seed your tank in the long run this is best.  The sooner you get things under control the less likely things like ick or other disease will crop up.

Keep up with water changes will stop these issues from occurring.

Bruce

Mike L

I'm  in the west end if you want some established media. Even substrate from an established tank placed in a nylon or media bag placed against the filter intake would be good. As mentioned earlier prime will bind the ammonia and nitrite making them harmless. The only tried and true method that I  know  of that  removes nitrate is water changes. Doing them also replenishes trace elements and minerals that are absorbed by the tanks inhabitants  and filters.

Caitiepi

Thanks for all the advice! For now I will hold off on the filter media (thank you very much for your offer Mike! If it takes too long to bring my levels into balance I will definitely take you up On that.) But already my Boesemani Rainbowfish are colouring up and everybody is very active and hungry. I am only feeding them every second day and less food than I was. And I'm doing 40% water changes every day to every other day. I will definitely look into getting a bottle of prime.
90 gallon community tank:
Red Rainbowfish
Boesemani Rainbowfish
Roseline Sharks
Rainbow Shark
Rosy Danios
Zebra Danios
Siamese Algae Eater
Electric Blue Acara
Green Severums
Rotkeil Severum
Black Convict Cichlid