Why do people polish?

[wolfiewill]

Question.  Why do people polish.

Not all tanks need it but there are benefits in some cases. I have many tanks, some with and some without. I have very good water clarity without on several tanks. It depends on fish load, substrate type (and age) and type of fish perhaps. Where it suits me is usually on a large tank with one large or several large filters. They can be heavy to lift, difficult to clean and time consuming, so I add a smaller polishing filter to do the bulk of the fine filtration. It can be cleaned with relative ease and in much less time. This is exactly why I recommended the idea to Zolta. The Marineland c360 are heavy, take a long time to clean and are a pain to put back together. So a smaller filter that's easier to clean - like an Eheim classic- is a good idea. This way he won't have to fiddle with the Marineland but once a year (perhaps), and can clean the smaller filter in far less time.

[Mike L]

How do you keep the nitrates down.  I'm assuming your planted tanks then and the plants keep it 8n check. I've had tanks with 15 to 20 cichlids or more but you could practically read a newspaper through the tanks lengthwise. Cichlids equal heavier load of course so I avoided the fine filter to extend filter maintenance to every 2 months.
Just an couple of observations. A course filter will still filter fine particles as the filter loads. No?
Maybe we should be discussing what to load in our filters.  I use ehiem classics  on my tanks. 4 course filters followed by my bio. Clean every 2 months.  Only the first 2 filters are rinsed and rotated to the top of the stack. I also run maxi jets with sponges on them.  You can even buy round black sponges made specifically for them. The other thing I'm curious about is not cleaning a filter for a year.  It's part of the system so isn't  the accumulated sludge adding to water quality issues.

[Al]

I feel that filter cleanings are dependent on size of filter, # of filters, fish load and as important feeding habits. probably the most important. I always have 2 filters on any given tank (eheim exclusively) and usually 3 on my large tanks. As a matter of safety, I always have a minimum of 2 cannisters just in case one has issues or so I can have piece of mind when I tear one down to clean and the other is fully capable of maintaining a high level of bio filtration.I have my Eheim Classic cannisters loaded with coarse eheim noodles - ehfi mech, followed by their blue sponge in the classics, then my biological media which is eheim or seachem's matrix - then a polishing pad. My Pro 3 models are loaded as per Eheims recommendations, which also include a polishing/fine particulate pad. I feed sparingly and usually skip at least one day per week and do not feed that day. My fish load isn't crazy but I have lots of larger type fish in the setups.

I find the polishing pad (white floss - Big Al's brand which I cut as needed) takes a lot of the finer particles out of the water column. If in doubt about the effectiveness of the floss pad, just have a look at it when you clean your filter and you'll appreciate its role in fine particulate cleaning. As to cleaning filters, right now all my tanks have 3 filters on them - Eheim 2262, Eheim 2080 and a Classic 2217. The cannisters get cleaned every 6-9 months, on average. Water changes are done every 5 days with the south American's I keep - and this ensures my nitrates are never above 10, which I check often enough. Yes the white floss gets dirty but even after the 6-9 months, I have never seen a real drop in spraybar output.
Keep feeding in check, regular water changes which we all know and vacuum substrate and my filters perform flawlessly for top water parameters

[exv152]

I agree, you can't substitute the fine filter floss for coarse pads only. They just don't do as good a job removing the finest particles which can cause cloudiness. I've never tried the pre-filter idea, but that is another option for those with large filters which can't cant be carried to the sink, so all your floss just goes in the prefilter. That said, I would still rinse out the whole filter at least once every 6 months though.

[Al]

Regarding carrying large filters from tank to work area, I made myself a small dolly - small platform with 4 wheels - that is the same height as the bottom shelf of my aquarium stand - and then I can "fairly" easily get the large cannisters onto the dolly and then wheel them over effortlessly to my work area. Works like a charm - because, yes, those large cannisters can be hernia inducing !!

[Mike L]

Think of your dryer lint catcher.  I would consider that to be a course mesh.  As it fills with dust it gets more efficien to the point were you can peel a thick layer off.  That is the same thing that happens with any filter.  My smaller tanks are filtered with ac filter and I don't run then with floss either but given the ease with with I can add it I'm going to do one of 2 smaller tank this afternoon.  Both are side by each with the same load and feeding and maintenance.  Curious now.

[lucius]

I do something similar as Al.  I use plant caddies to wheel my canister filters around.

[exv152]

Regarding carrying large filters from tank to work area, I made myself a small dolly - small platform with 4 wheels...

Al, I remember you mentioning this at Greg's place - that you have your 2262s on dollies. That's a great idea. I have a 125g and use three 2217s, and I find that to be the limit of what I'm willing to lift. I think if I were to go any bigger (in terms of tank size) I'd be looking at doing a sump. In fact I've even been contemplating a sump for my 125g. I like the advantages a sump provides.

[Al]

I have done sumps as well and they are pretty simple. I just found for my needs, I prefer the filtering and water flow I can get with large cannisters, as well as very quiet operation. I have run sumps with just a foam/floss plate running through large fluidized beds and they were very easy maintenance and excellent biohowever, even with a 2400 GPH pump on a 6 footer I found a 3/4" outlet to be wanting in terms of output and circulation unless I used several powerheads. I have been very happy with multi cannisters and on my tank designs, I have all the plumbing well hidden behind custom acrylic overflows, much like the ones used in drilled / reef ready tanks. But agreed, sumps have their advantages.
and the sump design I used also benefitted from the use of floss to capture small particulate matter. I changed out the floss weekly and you'd be surpised how much it filtered.

[wolfiewill]

Think of your dryer lint catcher.  I would consider that to be a course mesh.  As it fills with dust it gets more efficien to the point were you can peel a thick layer off.  That is the same thing that happens with any filter.

I don't think this is a good analogy. Al is right. If you want to observe the efficiency of the fine filter floss, load a filter in the recommended order - coarse filtration followed by bio filtration followed by the fine filter - and clean it after a few months. The fine filter will be thick with fine particles that the coarse pads can't remove.
As for removing nitrogenous waste, there is nothing that will remove ammonia, nitrites or nitrates (NH4+, NO2, NO3 respectivley) because they are dissolved solids. Only water changes or plants will do that.










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[Mike L]

 I don't deny that the fine filter does catch  debris. It's rather the need or benefit. Maybe a little clarification to my question regarding the use of polishing pads. I had kind of forgotten myself why I stopped using them.

For at least 20 years I used my classics in one of the 2 ways Eheim recommended with one alteration which was fine pad before bio. So it was mech on the bottom, course pad, fine pad, bio. In that configuration I did have debris in the fine pad. (I placed the fine pad before the bio to minimize clogging of the bio). I then switched to a variation to Eheims second  way of using the filter. 4 course pads, 1 fine, then bio. In this configuration while I did have some debris on the fine filter it was negligible so I removed the fine pad and increased the bio. It's been that way for many years. With this configuration the bottom 2 pads get cleaned and rotated to the top. The last 2 I leave alone and move down. My water clarity is excellent. Having used this format for a while I had forgotten my own history and it had not occurred to me that depending on what one has loaded into the filter the use of a fine filter would be beneficial.
Mike
   

 

[wolfiewill]

Just to complicate this a little more: I read in an ADA brochure that after a year, they don't fine filter at all either. And they obviously get good water clarity. But every tank is different. I suppose if a tank had no fine material in the substrate then there would be little use for fine floss (Al, you can correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I've never run without). I use 'designer dirt' like ADA and Fluval Stratum and as they age, and if they aren't covered with plant growth completely, the particles become like mud, and a fish passing can cause some of it to get well into the water column. And I have lots of SAEs, which are active fish which cause plenty of substrate disturbance.

[Al]

My thinking is at the end of the day, we can debate all we want about fine filtration, polishing or NO.
Are sponges as effective as bio? as much bio capacity?
What works for one setup isn't ideal for the next.
What is clear water to one isn't to the next.
My "plenty of power" 6 cylinder means nothing to the guy with a V8 or a turbo4.

I still like filter floss and will always use it. The stuff is 1/2" thick when dry and probably 1/16" thick when wet and in the canister so it isn't like it is taking up space from some other material in the can.
When I used foam and filter floss in my sumps, I used foam that was a lot finer in ppi than what Eheim or Hagen uses in their Classics and AquaClears (pretty coarse) - and the floss still picked up a LOT of stuff - from substrate particles to food to feces, you name it - whatever our filters and pumps get into the water column - which is everything if we are getting the right amount of flow throughout the tank without dead spots.

There was a day(and some still today) when some aquarists use diatom filters to get the clearest water - like after an algae bloom, etc. Diatomaceous earth's consistency is like passing water through fine flour - serious fine particle separation.

I find the filter floss picks up enough to make it an no-brainer to use in the canister - it's not taking any space, costs next to nothing and has shown me its worth.