Thinking out loud

[Jody]

I absolutely agree that getting the word out is an important key to bringing people out to the club, and a personal touch certainly would help.
In my years of working at Big Al's, I have seen no other employee regularly attend meetings, and for sure most don't even know that the club exists. I am working on figuring out a Win-Win relationship between the stores and OVAS.
Of course mail outs, newsletters etc are a great thing, but they also involve getting more people actively involved to help out with things.
Website members are good, but it is the paid ones, who take their time to come out to the meetings regularly, who will make a difference in the club. Obviously, we would love to get more people out to the meetings, and get more of them helping out.

Jody

[ajm1961]

Couldn't we put up a "permanent" poster in each of our sponsor's store(s) that advertises OVAS? We could then send them the monthly meeting information (via email or mail) to tack on to the poster. At least we would get exposure to our meetings.
I've seen such a poster in Montreal stores for the SAM.

[Jody]

ajm1961  This idea was put forth to the executive at the beginning of the season (for a slightly reduced rate, which would have been covered by about 4 new members). I found out last week,  that the idea was rejected. I offered to do the work to implement and keep it updated at the store level, but it did not go anywhere.

Jody

[exv152]

I found out last week,  that the idea was rejected. I offered to do the work to implement and keep it updated at the store level, but it did not go anywhere.

Jody

I'm surprised by this. I thought this came from the previous franchise owners but apparently not. Is it possible they see OVAS as competition?

[charlie]

I'm surprised by this. I thought this came from the previous franchise owners but apparently not. Is it possible they see OVAS as competition?

Eric , from my understanding of Jody`s post, it was not Big Al`s he is talking about.
I`m getting the impression , that whatever Jody/Big Al`s was proposing was rejected by OVAS.
Regards

[exv152]

Eric , from my understanding of Jody`s post, it was not Big Al`s he is talking about.
I`m getting the impression , that whatever Jody/Big Al`s was proposing was rejected by OVAS.
Regards

Ahh. I see. Thanks for the clarification Errol. I assumed it was the other way around based on past experience. Maybe someone from the executive can explain why this was rejected at the club level? Because honestly, that sounds like a great idea.

[charlie]

A b it off topic.
I can`t say i`m surprised, but this thread which is so significant to the club`s well being is so poorly subscribed it makes wonder if in the eyes of the members that log into the forum don`t think nothing needs to be addressed.
Tell us what your thoughts are?, feedback and input can be a good thing, we are not bashing anyone or group.

[Al]

Some thoughts. Agreed on the importance of getting the message out. I'm shocked and then again maybe I'm not - that employees at LFS wouldn't know about OVAS. Or that people visiting the website have some kind of notion that they are members of something???
I mentioned to a couple members the other day I thought that maybe giving out 1/2 price memberships at participating dealers?? or free 6 month memberships ?? to people who are buying new aquarium setups/etc at a LFS - set up some parameters for qualifying. Have a welcome package that gets given out at the store to these new people - coming into the hobby? a 10% off coupon in the welcome booklet/folder/piece of paper/fish card and envelope for a purchase that is surely going to be made in the next few weeks after someone is buying a new set-up. I forgot this, I need this, etc. Have some OVAS badges that employees can wear in the store "Ask me about OVAS " - run it for a couple of months and measure results. Or a card at the cash "Ask me about OVAS" "Ask me about fish school" Getting new people involved and them getting the MTS disease - More Tanks Syndrome - from attending meetings only means more business at the LFS. What about an OVAS plaque (simple, cheap) to preferred stores that support us, it looks like some kind of endorsement of the store from the local club - call it an OVAS fish partner associate or some fancy name. It goes somewhere prominent in the store.
The club needs the fish stores support and they need/would benefit from a better/larger OVAS - otherwise, the future will not be bright for their fish category - or their store's survival, period, if they have not branched out to include other pet categories. Can we meet with store owners/managers - have a sit down, what do they think? Have a predetermined questionnaire printed so whoever is doing the fact finding, we can consolidate some info from a strong base. For a store, a 10% discount as is currently give to members, only works when business is increasing - not static or slipping. It's money being given from the bottom line - and that's what it's all about at the store level. What the store manager/owner wants to know is simple "what's in it for me?" - we need to have that message clear.
What about some volunteers - there's that nasty "V" word - to do the boy scout/cadet/girl guide routine - can we setup in a couple of stores on a Saturday - or outside the store with a table and a few show-and-tell folders - and educate/sell OVAS.

Does the club have objectives for the next year? # of new memberships to shoot for? # of outside speakers? etc -  how it's going to get done - the 4 or 5 things that will drive it - otherwise, just get a bag of confetti and throw it up in the air !! What is the back-up plan?

The club also needs to explicitly lay out what the difference is between a paid member and just a web visitor - what are the upsides, benefits, payback, etc. It seems that at the present time a non-member can post ads, come to meetings, speaker engagements - there needs to be a clear benefit. To some it will be speakers and member engagement at meetings - for others BBQ's and bowling may be interesting - we have to clearly identify benefits to capture a wider base - not everyone wants another family.

Have a questionnaire for new members when they join up - what are they keeping / future interests / what do they want out of the club, etc. Have they been members of other clubs? what worked? didn't work?

What about presenting at schools? Elementary? High school? Get in front of large groups and spread the word about the benefits of the hobby?

[Jody]

Obviously getting the word out about OVAS to all the LFS employees would be a great thing, but getting them to care about OVAS is the hard part.
I have mentioned before that the relationship between OVAS and the fish stores could certainly be a win-win relationship.   The stores are willing to support the club, though maybe financially, as they are currently doing, isn't the best way.
I think once the weather is nice, the club should set up a little table in front of the store. The only problem, which is why we had to  stop it before, was the OVAS members were promoting the sale of memberships with the 10% discount in store. So a lot of people bought, just to save some cash, but few, if any, actually joined the OVAS community.  So really a short term win for the club, lose for the store. But if we figured out a good way to promote the club, one or two weekends, with a couple of volunteers at 3-4 willing stores, we could get a great boost in membership. PLUS it would give the employees of the stores a chance to learn about the club as well.
Having objectives for next year is a great idea Al. It gives the members and the exec a goal to work towards.
Even a business card with the website, on it, as well as a short detail about the club, or meeting dates for the season, which could be given out at willing stores would be good. We could put up a little Proud Supporter sign.
I also like the idea of having a new member questionaire, which could get them right into thinking of how they can become part of the club, and that the club can be tailored to it's members.
What about a bring a friend/family member to the club night? Something to encourage current members to reach out to people they know with fish tanks, and promote the club to the outside. If we added a couple of good door prizes, bonus raffle tickets could be given to people who bring a new person, maybe even an extra one for new people that join.

Jody

[Jody]

Exv152, yes the proposal was rejected by OVAS. Which is a shame, but their call to make. I am not sure why they made that decision, because the offer was designed to benefit the club as well as the store.

Jody

[Mike L]

  Going to be all over the place  here and hope I don't offend and sorry if I do but it seems like a chicken egg thing with regards to Lfs and ovas.
Example.  As you know I'm cichlid centric.  My observation with regards to cichlids is that only the most common  are brought in for sale  with big Al's being the main supplier.  They sell malawians on a regular basis yet I see no new cichlid members on our site.  So potential  members are out there.  They just don't know we exist. My suspicion is that all Lfs survive on the sale of one time setups and not regulars.  Seems to me that if I'm right then it would beneficial to both ovas and Lfs to work a little harder on a solution that in the end would benifit all. Maybe Jody can comment on this given that he is both a passionate hobbyist and part of our local retail.
Side note here.  Jody is the only representative from our Lfs to comment on any of this.  Input from some more of our sponsors would be a good thing.  Let's hear from you.

Second.  I don't go to meetings because it holds nothing for me. Besides  being difficult to attend for me there is no follow up because nobody on the site is a cichlid person. Sure I  can go to the occasional cichlid talk but so what.  No like minded hobbyists are out there to talk to. Ovas has no species profiles,  no plant profiles,  no info at all really.  So when a potential new member google say how to care for angelfish  or water requirements for  a given plant ovas sure doesn't show up. 

Is the club trying to be a bit for all disciplines but really being not enough for any? I  don't know.
I will say that compared to other sites the discussions on this site are informative with measured conversations.  You can go on many, many sites that are a whole lot of uninformed bravado that lend little to the hobby.  This site is not that.  Which to me is a good and worth keeping.
Having said this, the salties are gone and so are the cichlid keepers.  2 of the 3 main disciplines.  Ovas needs to decide what it is before any plan can be considered.  If it doesn't ovas will be chasing it's tail.
Mike

[Jody]

Mike L,   
I agree that most of the cichlids brought in are certainly targeting the new fish keeper, rather than the hobbyist. This is for a couple of reasons. The market in Ottawa is small, and hobbyists are the ones that are likely to deal shop for their fish.  If as a store, we have to retail a fish for $50, that you can find online for $30, where are you going to go for your group?
  There seems to be a certain point that the hobbyists begin reducing their shopping in store, so yes, a lot of our business is newer customers. The first year customers tend to be our biggest repeat customers, and spend the most. 
   Of course to me, we are certainly not really catering to some of our real cichlid / hobby customers with the fish we stock, but that is a different situation.
   With dozens of aspects to the hobby, it is hard to cater to any one group, be it cichlids, plants, saltwater etc. I think to appeal to the most people, we need to keep it a bit general, and have a variety of topics throughout the year.  Of course I like most aspects of the hobby, so I find the meetings interesting and informative, regardless of the actual topic.
   Yes, a number of the cichlid hobbyists are gone now, but there are still a few around. If you ever want to chat about cichlids, I am game for that!
   One note, if you are interested in the club, show up. I know the topics may not always be your cup of tea, but there is always neat things you can learn and maybe adapt to your hobby.  Showing up to the club helps in a couple of ways, it broadens the conversation, it encourages better speakers, and also, in some ways, it can be more welcoming to new members. OVAS may never be a big enough club to get the Ad Konings of the world, but with some participation and numbers, guys like Oliver Lucanus, Spencer Jack, Larry Johnson etc would be within reach to get out.  Instead of just local speakers, a big speaker or two a season.
    Jody

[charlie]

Some thoughts. Agreed on the importance of getting the message out. I'm shocked and then again maybe I'm not - that employees at LFS wouldn't know about OVAS. Or that people visiting the website have some kind of notion that they are members of something???
I mentioned to a couple members the other day I thought that maybe giving out 1/2 price memberships at participating dealers?? or free 6 month memberships ?? to people who are buying new aquarium setups/etc at a LFS - set up some parameters for qualifying. Have a welcome package that gets given out at the store to these new people - coming into the hobby? a 10% off coupon in the welcome booklet/folder/piece of paper/fish card and envelope for a purchase that is surely going to be made in the next few weeks after someone is buying a new set-up. I forgot this, I need this, etc. Have some OVAS badges that employees can wear in the store "Ask me about OVAS " - run it for a couple of months and measure results. Or a card at the cash "Ask me about OVAS" "Ask me about fish school" Getting new people involved and them getting the MTS disease - More Tanks Syndrome - from attending meetings only means more business at the LFS. What about an OVAS plaque (simple, cheap) to preferred stores that support us, it looks like some kind of endorsement of the store from the local club - call it an OVAS fish partner associate or some fancy name. It goes somewhere prominent in the store.
The club needs the fish stores support and they need/would benefit from a better/larger OVAS - otherwise, the future will not be bright for their fish category - or their store's survival, period, if they have not branched out to include other pet categories. Can we meet with store owners/managers - have a sit down, what do they think? Have a predetermined questionnaire printed so whoever is doing the fact finding, we can consolidate some info from a strong base. For a store, a 10% discount as is currently give to members, only works when business is increasing - not static or slipping. It's money being given from the bottom line - and that's what it's all about at the store level. What the store manager/owner wants to know is simple "what's in it for me?" - we need to have that message clear.
What about some volunteers - there's that nasty "V" word - to do the boy scout/cadet/girl guide routine - can we setup in a couple of stores on a Saturday - or outside the store with a table and a few show-and-tell folders - and educate/sell OVAS.

Does the club have objectives for the next year? # of new memberships to shoot for? # of outside speakers? etc -  how it's going to get done - the 4 or 5 things that will drive it - otherwise, just get a bag of confetti and throw it up in the air !! What is the back-up plan?

Have a questionnaire for new members when they join up - what are they keeping / future interests / what do they want out of the club, etc. Have they been members of other clubs? what worked? didn't work?
The club also needs to explicitly lay out what the difference is between a paid member and just a web visitor - what are the upsides, benefits, payback, etc. It seems that at the present time a non-member can post ads, come to meetings, speaker engagements - there needs to be a clear benefit. To some it will be speakers and member engagement at meetings - for others BBQ's and bowling may be interesting - we have to clearly identify benefits to capture a wider base - not everyone wants another family.


What about presenting at schools? Elementary? High school? Get in front of large groups and spread the word about the benefits of the hobby?

Al , that to me is the main issue that needs to be sorted out - what does paid  membership offer that a non member can`t enjoy for free?
10% discount at 2 stores period
Regards

[exv152]

Al , that to me is the main issue that needs to be sorted out - what does paid  membership offer that a non member can`t enjoy for free? 10% discount at 2 stores period
Regards

I agree. There has to be more to a paid membership or else members won't continue to pay for something everyone else is getting for free anyway, this includes classified ads, discounts for special speakers, discounts for auctions etc, in addition to the store discount. The SAS or Sacramento Aquarium Society seems to get it, see link... http://sacramentoaquariumsociety.info/membership/membership.html

[limed]

   This give me some good idles for adding stuff that only paid members can see.
Adding paid membership link for maybe some talks from other clubs that only paid members
can watch and new letters and other things. Will have to talk to the others to see what we can do.
  Need to add value to the paid members that buy a membership to support the club.

Ed

[zenins]

Hey all,

The issues of getting and keeping new members, the relationship between the club and the local fish stores and
making meetings interesting enough to keep people coming back are the same for other clubs.
We have all had declining membership and attendance in the last few years.
There is so much information and videos on the internet,
that only one or two new tropical fish related books have been published in the last few years.
This vast amount of information on the internet ( correct or not ) makes it very tough to convince people to join the club and attend meetings.
The Q and A sessions at our meetings used to be the highlight of the meeting because you could have a nice discussion of
what worked and did not work, it may work for you, give it a try, that type of thing.

The president and executive of my home club is always trying to come up with ways to get those "keyboard hobbyists" to
come to our meetings and eventually join.

Declining membership, makes it tough to fund events like speakers, workshops, trips, giveaways and other benefits that might encourage more to join.
I like the interaction between hobbyists in person, either at a meeting or at someone's home in front of their aquariums

[Jody]

I agree, there needs to be some perks and benefits to becoming a paid member, and to coming out to the meetings.
Unfortunately, if the only perk is store discounts, then we really need to figure something else out. Already several stores have stopped offering discounts, and I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining ones stop at some point as well.

Getting people out to the meetings is a big thing.
How can we attract new people to the club and get existing members to come out to the meetings?
Interesting talks and speakers? Yes, but as Mike L said, they won't all appeal to everyone.
Outside events, like bowling, picnic, dinner etc? They are fun, but I would try to make those extras, and not meeting replacements.
Mini auctions? They are great, if you can get the people to bring out stuff to the club, and if you can get people to bid. It is hard if there is only 15-20 people, chances are nothing will sell for much, which discourages sellers.
Interactive event, like meet & greet, Trivia night etc? A great way to get the club members involved in stuff.
Actually, just as a thought, it could be fun to have all members attending the meeting each bring or ask a general aquarium trivia question or two. This could be interesting, because you would have people asking things about their aspects of the hobby.

Zenins - Yes, from everyone I have talked to, most clubs out there are suffering a bit due to the beast that is the internet. I know our stores have stopped carrying books because you almost have to give them away to get rid of them.
Q & A events are great as well, it gets people involved.
It is absolutely true that less membership means less money to do bigger things for the members.
I really enjoy the interaction with the members, which is why I am always up for dinner before the meeting, and wings afterwards.
Jody

[zenins]

I really enjoy the interaction with the members, which is why I am always up for dinner before the meeting, and wings afterwards.

Jody

Yes ... we can do that when I come to speak to OVAS on April 24

Zenin

[ajm1961]

A number of ideas being generated in this thread - in fact it's nice to see the forum come alive. For much of the winter it seemed pretty quiet.

Aside from a decline in meeting attendance, the most worrying trend for me is the slowly shrinking executive. We actually amended the executive format a few years ago to bring it down from 13 positions to the current 8. And now it seems even that is too big! Unless we get some more individuals interested in participating at that level, I'm afraid the club won't survive much longer. Let's face it, we need people to put these ideas in action, organize meetings, attract members, keep sponsors, manage the funds, etc. I did my part for 5 years as newsletter chair, vice-president and president. Those who are currently on the executive have been doing their part for at least 3 years now. I personally thank them for finding the time to keep OVAS alive. We all owe them our gratitude.

So, how can we make it easier for people to volunteer? Fewer meetings? Fewer exec meetings? Use teleconference for exec meetings? List of tasks divided by a larger number of volunteers? Fewer positions? Is it time to think about online events if we have a greater number of "keyboard members"? Does it need to be mainly a website/forum with perhaps a few official events and leave it to members to organize themselves to meet, such as the plantaholics? Maybe it's time to rethink what a club means in the 21st century...

[charlie]

I have a few suggestions , but i need to clarify my suggestions are in no way , shape or form is intended to discriminate any group or groups of the community, it based solely on how to (a) revitalize the club (b) generating revenue to offer better programs (c) promoting the hobby , there is no hidden agenda personal or otherwise.
As witrh anything else , committed volunteers are needed to make things happen.
I suggest we look at having the web site /forum a bit more club membership driven.
I have observed the classifieds are now re open to replying to ads in both member & non member ads( quite honestly i don`t understand what are the reasons for the separation of the two)
(A)I would suggest the ability to reply to ads in the forum be a membership only  privilege ( if possible?)
I would also suggest  that non members be limited to" X" number of ads per month or other.
( B) At one time there use to be a chat room, bring it back as a membership privilege with possibly theme nights, if there is a  interactive tool for live audio chat use it, helps people like me who can talk faster than they can type 
( C ) Try to get the photo contest back on stream with meaningful prizes for club members, i other words it can be open to all and sundry but only the top "X" club members will be awarded It can be African cichild specie  of the month, plant of the month, coral of the month and so on.
(D)New forum sign ons getting a welcome message that outlines the club and it`s benefits
I want to interject again, it takes volunteers to accomplish these things, perfect for those who would like to get involved but can make it to meetings or allocate time on the exec.
Meetings
(A)A serious effort should be made to explore interactive web based exec. meetings, this eliminates the amount of meet ups and possibly encourage members to step up.
(B)Do more of Exec. input / votes in the exec. forum( i implemented this in my time not sure if it`s still practiced)
(C) Have a look at meeting places and location, perhaps a quiet family restaurant that would welcome some action on a dead night, Legions for the same reason - fill a void night of empty space .
(D) More interaction between Exec. members and attending members ( lead by example) more so with new attendees.
Just a few that i can think of now , i`m sure i can think of more but this in my opinion is a possible way to start the revitalization of OVAS .
Errol