20 Gallons of Uncertainty

[AngelaM]

So I've introduced myself now I'd like to introduce the tank I'm building.

I like 20g longs. They feel like a bigger tank than they are for some reason. They have all that lovely floor space and are short enough to make cheaper lights work better than they would on a standard 20g or 29g.

My last 20g long was a bit of a jungle and while I enjoyed it I was never entirely satisfied with it.  This will be an aquascaped and planted tank with driftwood hardscape. I've always liked the aquascapes with the light coloured sand paths and I hope to reproduce something like that. For now, I'm going to stick to easy low-light, low tech plants like crypts and java fern. Right now I'm trying to go slow and set it up how I want it rather than cut corners so that it can be running as soon as possible...this is hard.

Currently, I have some of the substrates in the tank and I have been playing with the positioning of the filter and heater. I'm not crazy about how the equipment looks in the tank. I actually dislike it to the point where the idea of a sump starts to sound nice. Am I crazy to think for putting a 10-15 gallon sump on a 20 gallon tank? Can one drill a tank this small? How well do HOB u-tube style overflow boxes work?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156688578@N03/shares/t6V8cP

I need to pick up some sort of light coloured sand to finish the substrate off. Then I need to find some driftwood. Is there anywhere particularly good for collecting in the wild or buying in store in the Ottawa area?

Now for the confusion...I know what I want this tank to look like. I know how I want to plant it. Where I'm stuck is on what to put in it. Here are my guidelines:
1) I want to keep the stocking relatively light.
2) I'm not a huge fan of multi-species communities in a tank this small.
3) I prefer things I can breed without going through too many hoops but I'm not wedded to that idea.
4) I'm not crazy about the idea of livebearers (with a couple exceptions) simply because I've kept the standard ones (mollies, swords, guppies, platies) frequently in the past.

Here are some idea that I have:

1) A pair of Apistogramma cacatuoides
2) A pair of Kribensis
3) A school of chili rasboras (Borara briggitae) + some sort of neocaridina shrimp
4) A school of Microdevario kubotai + some sort of neocaridina shrimp
5) A school of CPD + some sort of neocaridina shrimp
6) Four Pea puffers + snails for food
7) Sparkling gouramis
8 ) Some Epiplatys annulatus (clown killies)
9) Heterandria formosa (livebearer exception 1 because I've never kept them before and they look cool)
10) Endler's livebearer (livebearer exception 2 because they are probably my favourite fish)

I would love some thoughts on these possibilities and suggestions of others. I'm pretty much equally fond of all of them. I'm going to fishless cycle this thing so I have tones of time.

Please, comments, ideas, suggestions, feedback are all highly appreciated!

[AngelaM]

I've put this tank on the backburner while I decide what I want to do about filtration and occupants and have set up a 7-gallon rimless cube to grow plants in while I wait. This tank will run with a small air-driven sponge filter and a set of cheap LED lights I got off amazon. I'm quasi-aiming for an island type aquascape. I have Seachem fluorite red clay substrate in the centre and small pea gravel around the edges. I picked out some driftwood I liked for the middle.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156688578@N03/38086579986/in/dateposted-public/

After filling the tank I realized that the driftwood was cured which in hindsight I should have realized and as usual the fluorite substrate had made the water cloudy. I can't seem to solve that problem without rinsing it far more vigorously than I'd like.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156688578@N03/37432254084/in/dateposted-public

I waited until I could see the bottom and planted the crypts and Literola uniflora I had. They were tissue culture ones from a brand I hadn't used before 1-2-Grow. I wasn't impressed. The roots did not look good and they were slimy. I have a feeling I got a bad lot. Then I cut up the narrow leaf java ferns and poked them around the wood and filter.

By this afternoon the water was almost completely clear and things look good. Now to see if those plants survive.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156688578@N03/38146675681/in/dateposted-public/

[charlie]

So I've introduced myself now I'd like to introduce the tank I'm building.

I like 20g longs. They feel like a bigger tank than they are for some reason. They have all that lovely floor space and are short enough to make cheaper lights work better than they would on a standard 20g or 29g.

My last 20g long was a bit of a jungle and while I enjoyed it I was never entirely satisfied with it.  This will be an aquascaped and planted tank with driftwood hardscape. I've always liked the aquascapes with the light coloured sand paths and I hope to reproduce something like that. For now, I'm going to stick to easy low-light, low tech plants like crypts and java fern. Right now I'm trying to go slow and set it up how I want it rather than cut corners so that it can be running as soon as possible...this is hard.

Currently, I have some of the substrates in the tank and I have been playing with the positioning of the filter and heater. I'm not crazy about how the equipment looks in the tank. I actually dislike it to the point where the idea of a sump starts to sound nice. Am I crazy to think for putting a 10-15 gallon sump on a 20 gallon tank? Can one drill a tank this small? How well do HOB u-tube style overflow boxes work?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156688578@N03/shares/t6V8cP

I need to pick up some sort of light coloured sand to finish the substrate off. Then I need to find some driftwood. Is there anywhere particularly good for collecting in the wild or buying in store in the Ottawa area?

Now for the confusion...I know what I want this tank to look like. I know how I want to plant it. Where I'm stuck is on what to put in it. Here are my guidelines:
1) I want to keep the stocking relatively light.
2) I'm not a huge fan of multi-species communities in a tank this small.
3) I prefer things I can breed without going through too many hoops but I'm not wedded to that idea.
4) I'm not crazy about the idea of livebearers (with a couple exceptions) simply because I've kept the standard ones (mollies, swords, guppies, platies) frequently in the past.

Here are some idea that I have:

1) A pair of Apistogramma cacatuoides
2) A pair of Kribensis
3) A school of chili rasboras (Borara briggitae) + some sort of neocaridina shrimp
4) A school of Microdevario kubotai + some sort of neocaridina shrimp
5) A school of CPD + some sort of neocaridina shrimp
6) Four Pea puffers + snails for food
7) Sparkling gouramis
8 ) Some Epiplatys annulatus (clown killies)
9) Heterandria formosa (livebearer exception 1 because I've never kept them before and they look cool)
10) Endler's livebearer (livebearer exception 2 because they are probably my favourite fish)

I would love some thoughts on these possibilities and suggestions of others. I'm pretty much equally fond of all of them. I'm going to fishless cycle this thing so I have tones of time.

Please, comments, ideas, suggestions, feedback are all highly appreciated!

Sorry for the late response to your post on the 20 gallon long, like you i like the dimensions of this tank.
I tend to agree that the current  filter does  take away from the aesthetics of the tank, a hang on the back such as an Aqua Clear would look better and provide better filtration in my opinion, that said i`m a huge fan of canister filters for aquascaped tanks  .
The 20 long screams dwarf cichlids, corries and some tetras or pencil fish  to me 
Regards

[AngelaM]

Sorry for the late response to your post on the 20 gallon long, like you i like the dimensions of this tank.
I tend to agree that the current  filter does  take away from the aesthetics of the tank, a hang on the back such as an Aqua Clear would look better and provide better filtration in my opinion, that said i`m a huge fan of canister filters for aquascaped tanks  .

Do the current aqua clear filters still back syphon dry during power outages? I know some I had years ago did that much to my annoyance.

As to canisters...I had an API filster on my tank in Newfoundland until the seals went and it started sucking air. I liked it though...maybe I'll look into this.

[Mike L]

 Seachem tidal filters will be my next hob. The innovations that have been installed on these filters are game changers. One of many neat design features is self priming. And right now a least they are very affordable. Think big Al's carry them.

[Black_Rose]

Do the current aqua clear filters still back syphon dry during power outages? I know some I had years ago did that much to my annoyance.

Yes, they still can go dry during a power failure.

As Mike mentioned, the Seachem Tidal filters combine the best features of the Aquaclear with the self-priming of the Aqueon Quietflow filters.

I use the Aqueon Quietflow filters on all my tanks that have HOBs. 
I don't use the cartridges in them, instead using course foam and Seachem Matrix.

[Jody]

I like the Tidal filters. Lot of great features to them.
Versatile like the aquaclear,  self priming,  surface skimmer,  2 flow regulators,  cleaning indicator.
They also have a locking media basket,  so you don't have it float up (like the aquaclear can) and cause the filter to leak if you aren't keeping up on the maintenance.
Jody

[AngelaM]

The 20 long screams dwarf cichlids, corries and some tetras or pencil fish  to me 

I'm beginning to agree on the dwarf cichlids from but I prefer rasboras to tetras....don't know why. Had an unfortunate incident with pencilfish and a 48hr winter power outage (gross carnage) and I think that scared me on them.

Now, what goes better in the water around here, apistogramma, rams, or kribensis?

[charlie]

Our water is great for Apistos and 
Rams
I think Big Al's has a variety of both in stock

[Mike L]

 I make no bones about my love for Africans so my 2 cents. I run 4 tanks with low light plants using Aragonite for the last 4 years Val's grow crazy, anubias are anubias. 2 house shellies which to me are more interesting then apistos and rams. I have in the past bred the last 2 and am currently doing shellies. Give it some thought since you are doing low light.

[AngelaM]

I make no bones about my love for Africans so my 2 cents. I run 4 tanks with low light plants using Aragonite for the last 4 years Val's grow crazy, anubias are anubias. 2 house shellies which to me are more interesting then apistos and rams. I have in the past bred the last 2 and am currently doing shellies. Give it some thought since you are doing low light.

Are you raising N. multifaciatus? I have definitely considered shellies but I think I want more flexibility in planting than the water chemistry they require would allow. Plus, don't they have a tendency of reorganizing the landscape to their own whims?

I'm a bit surprised that heavy root feeders, like vals, are growing well in aragonite. Are you using any kind of root fertilizer?

[Mike L]

 Multis are the digger Shellie. Most others are moderate to no digging. And some like caudalpunctatus  and vittatus use the shells for breeding only. You could also keep Julie's. I'll take a picture of the first tank I planted which is the one in my profile pic. That about 4 years ago.

[Mike L]

Just took a pic but can't figure how to post it for some reason. When I figure it out I'll post

[Mike L]

I cant download pics so you can see the vals but they grow like crazy. Water sits at 8.4 with gh and kh in the 12 to 15 range. Very hard water. They are also the only plant that grows in lake Tanganyika which is the biotopes I'm recreating

[AngelaM]

I hadn't realized that that's where they were from...makes sense that they do well!

[Mike L]

Just googled and they are found all over the world. Pretty sure I have been swimming in  various places and seen them.  Shorelines for sure. Maybe the plant experts could comment.

[AngelaM]

I've made some decisions: I'm going to go with some kind of apistogramma. Haven't decided which yet. The Apistogramma borelli looks beautiful but I need to do more research.

Currently, I'm trying my hand at making a styrofoam and cement background. I've never done it before so it might tuner out to be as much of a mess as its making my living room. I think I'll move the whole process somewhere else when the concrete gets involved.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156688578@N03/37583821884/in/dateposted-public/

[Mike L]

Very cool.   Homemade Backgrounds are something I've recently wanted to try my hand at. Are you using the pebbley white stuff?
Mike

[Jody]

Very cool, I have thought about trying out a homemade background as well. Let us know how it works out.
One thing with it, just make sure it is well sealed, otherwise the concrete will leach and buffer up your pH, which your apistos won't like.

Jody

[AngelaM]

Very cool, I have thought about trying out a homemade background as well. Let us know how it works out.
One thing with it, just make sure it is well sealed, otherwise the concrete will leach and buffer up your pH, which your apistos won't like.

Jody

Good point Jody! I will think about how to seal this thing if it turns out okay. I was looking at the cost of epoxy and its dear so I'm not going to buy any until I know what this thing is going to look like in the end.

[AngelaM]

Very cool.   Homemade Backgrounds are something I've recently wanted to try my hand at. Are you using the pebbley white stuff?
Mike

For the bits that are supposed to be rock I am. My roommate had a bunch of stuff delivered recently that was packed in it. I'm going to try a bit that looks like a tree stump and for that I'm going to try to find some of the non-pebbly kind.

Does anyone know of a place that sells/gives away styrofoam sheets?

[Jody]

We often get fish orders in Styrofoam boxes made of sheets. Give Big Al's a call and see.if we have any.

Jody

[Mike L]

Home depot sell the pink stuff. It would definatly carve better. Pretty sure the sell small sheets. Even then a full sheet is not expensive

[AngelaM]

An update:

I now have everything but the lights for this tank. I had ordered a set off eBay but they came in much smaller than expected (the seller had some interesting methods of measuring and photographing them). They work very well on my 12" cube though so it's not a complete loss. Currently, the cube is holding a bunch of plants (bucephelandra, anubias, java fern, crypt, foxtail a couple others) and is packed.

I've been looking into other options but am having trouble finding lights for a 30" long tank. Any suggestions? Based on my previous experience where I was using a DIY ducktape and bailing twin set I used I'd prefer to be closer to medium light than low light.

I've decided to shelve the backdrop project after looking into what the epoxy was going to cost me. Seeing I have most of what I need to finish it I'm going to save it for a future shelly or livebearer setup where the ph buffering factor is not an issue. In lieu of the backdrop, I've painted the back and wall-side of the tank. I'll post pictures when it's dried.

[Black_Rose]

I bought a 30 inch Beamswork ET 6500k light bar for a 29 gallon tank build that is now on hiatus (may be selling off new tank and light).

[tanksalot360]

I have been dealing with the 30in / 80cm conundrum myself. Its not a commonly stocked size.
For the past year and a half, I have been using a 36" dual T5HO strip light (Hagen Glo) and over hangs on the sides - good enough for the fishroom, maybe not the best in a living room.
I toyed with the Beamswork lamp - canadianaquatics still has a couple low watt (72 x 0.2w) LED 24" fixtures with legs/brackets that stretch to 30". Many 24" lights do stretch.
Chihiros LED fixtures are available at the 80cm length but at an added cost - I was looking at aquasense (montreal) and eBay - color and output is great on these. they now have an RGB version that would help balance the white if you ran one of each.
I consider myself lucky for finding a lightly-used finnex planted+ 24/7, at 30". I now run both the dual T5 fixture and the finnex fixture.

Lots of light- almost too much. If the plant mass isnt maintained (ie. if I trim too much) the hair algae invades.
Other options I explored were building a bracket to hang ~3 LED spot lights. 

[AngelaM]

I have been dealing with the 30in / 80cm conundrum myself. Its not a commonly stocked size.
For the past year and a half, I have been using a 36" dual T5HO strip light (Hagen Glo) and over hangs on the sides - good enough for the fishroom, maybe not the best in a living room.
I toyed with the Beamswork lamp - canadianaquatics still has a couple low watt (72 x 0.2w) LED 24" fixtures with legs/brackets that stretch to 30". Many 24" lights do stretch.
Chihiros LED fixtures are available at the 80cm length but at an added cost - I was looking at aquasense (montreal) and eBay - color and output is great on these. they now have an RGB version that would help balance the white if you ran one of each.
I consider myself lucky for finding a lightly-used finnex planted+ 24/7, at 30". I now run both the dual T5 fixture and the finnex fixture.

Lots of light- almost too much. If the plant mass isnt maintained (ie. if I trim too much) the hair algae invades.
Other options I explored were building a bracket to hang ~3 LED spot lights. 

I might end up going with a longer light. I should have looked into this before buying the tank. In the end I might have been better off with a 36" tank on this.

[AngelaM]

Having painted the back and wall side of the aquarium last weekend I really wanted to get it up and running today. So I ran out and picked up a set of Aqueon OptiBright lights, a glass top, and some hardscape today.

I hardscaped the aquarium using a large piece of Eucalyptus wood, some small pieces of mopani, a small piece of spiderwood (which has been living in the 12" cube), a small dragonstone, a fist-sized chunk of lava rock (the geologist in me hates this term for scoria...ugg), and a small pot that I hope my eventual apistogramma will like.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156688578@N03/38586613616/in/dateposted-public/

After filling the tank to just over the substrate and raiding the 12" cube I planted it. Its planted with Anubias barteri "nana", narrow leaf java fern, bolbotis, Cryptocoryne crispatula, two varieties of bucephelandra, and .

I tucked or tied the rhysome plants to the rocks and wood. Unfortunately, I didn't have any dark coloured string so some of the strings are visible and I look forward to the time when I can remove them. The crypts am very happy about these are the plants I got as a tissue culture at the beginning of November that had horribly unhealthy roots. They all have some new healthy-looking white roots and I have hopes for them.

Once planted I filled the tank the rest of the way. It was immediately obvious that the large piece of eucalyptus so I put a bag of gravel on top and a piece of lava rock on one end to weigh it down until it sinks. I attached a power bar to the wall. Then I set up the filter (a penn plax canister), heater, lid, and lights.

All in all, I'm happy with it. Its a bit foggy and has a lot of air bubbles on the walls but I'm attaching a picture here. I'll get some better ones once it clears.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156688578@N03/38586613816/in/dateposted-public/

[charlie]

Hi Angela, , thanks for sharing, looking forward to the progress.
I tried resizing the picture

[AngelaM]

Here it is. The results today with clearer water. The breeder box has left over anubias for the auction tomorrow.

[AngelaM]

A week later things are going well. I picked up some Nymphoides hydrophylla, Bucephalandra sp., Hygrophila pinnatifa, Cryptocoryne sp., and Java moss at the auction which I've added.

It also seems that all these plants might have come with some good microbes! I'm already reading nitrate and nitrite in the water. I'm going to continue the cycle until its converting 6ppm Ammonia to nitrate in about 1-2hrs but I have hopes this won't take too long. SO I'm starting to think about stocking. Here is my current plan:

1. A pair of apistogramma (species undecided I am open to suggestions on what the best one is to start with as I've never kept SA cichlids before)
2. 6 otocinclus cats (because from what I read apistogramma ignore them and they eat algae so I like them)
3. 6-8 either Boraras brigittae or Boraras maculatus


I'm curious to what would be the best order to add things. I'm assuming adding the apistos last is the right way to go about it.

[charlie]

Enjoying how this build is progressing, thanks for sharing
Regards

[Gilbotron]

Thats a nice stocking list. 

I would recommend adding the otos last and maybe wait a little longer.  They can be very sensitive so you want to make sure the tank is very stable and established, and you also want to have a good amount of algae built up for them so they don't starve.  Anytime I've added otos to a relatively new tank they haven't done well, but in my established tanks, no prob.

[matttimms49]

I would go for more Chili Rasbora too, in a 20 L you could at least double your number.

[AngelaM]

Thats a nice stocking list. 

I would recommend adding the otos last and maybe wait a little longer.  They can be very sensitive so you want to make sure the tank is very stable and established, and you also want to have a good amount of algae built up for them so they don't starve.  Anytime I've added otos to a relatively new tank they haven't done well, but in my established tanks, no prob.

I've had success adding them early before. Mostly due to providing large amounts of food (Ripashy painted onto wood, veggies ect. ) and I made sure the otos in question had been at my prefered LSF in St. John's at least 2 weeks. However, you make a good point that they are really sensitive.

I guess its the rasboras first, then the apistos, then the otos.

[AngelaM]

Saturday morning I was surprised to find that my tank was able to processed 6ppm ammonia to nitrate in less than 4hrs. I was so happy that I did a large water change to drop the nitrate levels down to about 20ppm and made plans to go fish shopping.

After having had a good look at the mouth of an adult male apistogramma I decided that boraras might end up being on the menu. So I took the suggestion of Jody and am trying out some lampeye killifish (Aplocheilichthys kingii). They get a bit bigger than the Boraras sp. I was considering and as far as I've seen pretty much stick to the top of the tank. I bought three and we will see if they get eaten.

The killiefish are really hard to photograph as they are constantly moving. They are staying near the top of the tank and seem to like the patch of java moss on the top of my log. I'm wondering if I'll see some breeding behaviour from them. So far the apistogramma seem to be oblivious to their existance.

I also picked up three Apistogramma cacatoides.  I tried to get a male and two females but they are juveniles and its hard determine. I definitely have a male but the other two I'm not sure yet.

I've tried to get some pictures this morning but they are only taken with my phone camera and aren't great. For scale, the catappa leaves are ~2" long. I think the paler small fish who the obvious male spend a lot of time following might actually be a female. The darker small one is hard to get pictures of as it spends a lot of time hiding. I think it might be another male.

So far I've had a lot of fun watching both the apistos and the killies. If anyone has thoughts one the genders of the little cichlids let me know!

[AngelaM]

More pictures