major problems!!

[Seanc]

I'm in trouble!!
two of my discus are sick. one of them was sick last week so i treated him. he was getting better, or at least i thought he was, and then today i see him, and he is almost dead. he was lying in the weeds, barely breathing. i added some salt, and started to get ready for a water change. now he/she is dead. and the other one is very sick too. it is only my two newer ones. the red spot discus. they had some fin rot, and i was treating it, but it must of came back full force or something. and now they are both dieing/dead.

also one of my apistos seems to have a worm or something around his mouth. and is not looking good at all.

and one more problem, yeah i know another one. my tank is all cloudy. white cloudy.
i don't understand this, because i have been doing water changes every 2 days. could it be the salt/medication that is making it cloudy?

what could be causing my two discus to be dieing? could it be the excessive water changes? making the Ph bump up? because i don't think it would just be the fin rot, thats just a sign that their immune system is down, right?

also why would my other discus be doing well? they are also wild.

any help would be greatly appreciate. i am going to take some pictures.

[busdriver]

Sorry to hear of your discus problems and sorry for your loss of a discus.
I'm really interested in reading the responses as I plan on getting some discus too.

busdriver aka Terry

[BigDaddy]

The meds could be making the water cloudy, or the meds could be impacting the biological filter, causing a bacterial bloom.

Test for ammonia and nitrite, that will confirm if you biofilter has been hit or not.

[Seanc]

wow good job BigD!! i have an amonia spike. that is one of the most anoying things ever. i lost the other discus. so by treating them, i killed them!!! you don't understand how angry/sad i am. the othere one is now dead to. what can i do to fix this?!

[Julie]

Bacterial bloom from the meds; I had a slight one also from the prazi pro.

What treatment did you use?  Yes slow down on the water changes if you are not matching ph when changing...otherwise aerate your new water 24 hours before change and match tank temp also when they are sick.

Wilds are harder to keep than domestics.

[Julie]

Sean if you have another tank, borrow some media from it, or another ovas member; otherwise you will have to water change to control the ammonia.

You can try Cycle, take the carbon out of your filter it doesn't help with ammonia.

[Seanc]

does anyone have any filter media they can spare? i only have a small aqua clear, on my other tank. thanks everyone.

[Laura]

PM sent on media.

[Aquaviewer]

Sorry to hear about your losses.  I'm not sure what was ailing your fish but, I had a similar situation a while back where I lost two fish to what I thought was hexima, although I now think that it was ultimately stress that did them in.  I've notices that once stressed, particularly if the cause is chronic (i.e. frequent fluctuation in water chemistry, harassment, illness, change in environment) Discus are very stubborn in recovering if not caught early.

If you aren't already doing so I have a couple of suggestions that may help you in the future (I couldn't tell from your post what your specific treatment regime was).

Setting up a separate treatment tank will be helpful in treating fish rather than trying to do your main tank, especially a planted community tank.  A ten gallon with an activated sponge filter works well, however as big as you can get away with is always better. 

I always avoid adding meds to a main tank as it typically creates other issues (i.e. filter crash).  I think the ammonia spike was a result of the treatment not the initial cause.  Also, when using meds it's a good idea to remove carbon.

I find when treating discus, placing them in a salted treatment tank and gradually raising the temp up to as high as 90F has had positive effects particularly if they are suffering from stress and have stopped eating.  This would also be the time to add the meds as per the instructions.  Prior to placing fish back in the main tank after you feel they are back on track, gradually (over days) bring the temp back down to the temp in the main tank.  Then follow regular introduction techniques.

If you are of the frequent water change school of discus husbandry numerous small changes (less than 5 to 10%) at the right temp appears to keep the fish happy.  This is particularly important if you are not aging the water prior to the change.  The smaller doses minimize the pH shift while still removing nitrates.  If you can, set up an aging tank (pail, barrel etc..) so you have pH and temperature adjusted water on hand.

I hope some of this was helpful.

[Seanc]

Setting up a separate treatment tank will be helpful in treating fish rather than trying to do your main tank, especially a planted community tank.  A ten gallon with an activated sponge filter works well, however as big as you can get away with is always better. 

I usualy have one, but i just recenty setit up as a salt tank (which is what always seems to hapen to hospital tanks, they eventualy become permantent residence for someone)

I find when treating discus, placing them in a salted treatment tank and gradually raising the temp up to as high as 90F has had positive effects particularly if they are suffering from stress and have stopped eating.  This would also be the time to add the meds as per the instructions.  Prior to placing fish back in the main tank after you feel they are back on track, gradually (over days) bring the temp back down to the temp in the main tank.  Then follow regular introduction techniques.

If you are of the frequent water change school of discus husbandry numerous small changes (less than 5 to 10%) at the right temp appears to keep the fish happy.  This is particularly important if you are not aging the water prior to the change.  The smaller doses minimize the pH shift while still removing nitrates.  If you can, set up an aging tank (pail, barrel etc..) so you have pH and temperature adjusted water on hand.

I hope some of this was helpful.

I did at first use the natural reaction, of raising the temp and treating with salt. I also picked up the othere meds the same day. also i actualy have a sump that i keep the water in, for at least 24hrs (because thats about how long it takes for it to get the right temp) i on;y do one large water change though, because of the plants. I havent tryed ajusting the water yet, and probobly should check into it.

thanks alot for the answers. it was helpfull.

[alexv]

Well, I had similar situation where I almost lost my fish too. I had some case of fin rot on some of my fish in my 55g a few years back. So I was treating the whole tank with an antibiotic (maracin). After a few days of treatment, I put another dose into the tank and a few hours later I noticed the water getting more and more cloudy. I first thought it was the tablets that were giving the cloudiness as they normally add some white stuff to the water. But after a few dozen more minutes the water became so cloudy that I had trouble seeing the opposite side of the tank. That's when I started noticing some of the fish gasping at the surface. After I saw kuhli loaches and amano shrimp trying to get out of the tank I realized that something had to be done right away.

There was no time for me to think, so I ended up netting all the fish out of the tank and into the buckets of water. I decided it was either they suffocate for sure or suffer of some water parameter change shock. And the former will definitely kill them while the latter might not...

Well, to make long story short, I lost some of the neons and danios however most of the other fish survived. I was doing water changes in the tank and after a few days everything was back to normal (and that's when I noticed I had a ton of danio fry in the tank ). It turned out my danios were breeding almost every day and the fry was being regularly eaten by all the fish. But since I had removed all the fish for several days, the fry got the chance to actually hatch and start swimming

So, medicating the tank could cause bacterial bloom and it could deplete the oxygen and suffocate your fish. That could be what have happened to your fish too...

[Julie]

A medicated food mix is more effective and safer if the fish are still eating.

Would like to add Hex requires 10 days at 92 as a treatment...apparently it can't survive.  I do find heat and extra aeration very effective.

[Seanc]

thats what i used maracin. and the same thing happend to my tank. i think it has picked back up. everything seems alright. except for the two apitsos. they semm to have some small white worms, in them. i'm not sure hot to treat them. i raised the temp in their tank (isolated them in a small bucket, which is to small for the discus) to 90, but thats all so far. the worms are white, and visible, maybe 1-2 mm long.