Male Cacatuoides chasing female

[RedFish]

I bought a young pair of double red Cacatuoides at the auction.   They are alone in a 12 gallon, at least for a couple more weeks until I get the new 29 set up.

I put in quite a few live plants and lots of silks, plus a cave.   The female keeps sitting on one open side, looking through the glass (at her reflection?) and the male will charge her and chase her.  I think there is enough places for her to hide, is this just normal behaviour and he won't hurt her?

[BigDaddy]

Make sure she can actually hide from him... if he's at it incesently then you may have problems.

A good target fish can help ... the male will go after the target instead of the female.  Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.  I've had male rams ignore rasboras and still harass the female...

As far as the planting... just make sure it breaks up the line of sight from one side of the tank to the other.  It will also help in establishing a territory until he/she decides its spawning time.

[Toss]

Other option is to add more female(s). Depending on the size of the tank, one or two more female will share the aggression of the male. The females will also has aggression toward each other. It is normal in Apisto world 

[RedFish]

Thank you BD and Toss.

So which would be my best choice for the next few weeks.   The tank has a well cycled filter (was running in another tank) in it, but nothing else in the 12 gallon has been through a cycle.   It has been set up one week since the auction.
I moved the plants around today, so that there is no clear line of sight in any direction.

1.   When I move these two to the bigger tank in a couple of weeks, I intend to put cardinals in as the gang fish.
Should I just add a few now, to give the male something else to chase?  I think the tank could handle the load?

2.   Should I move the female to my existing 29 gallon and leave the male alone in the 12 ?  The existing 29 has a pair of young blue rams in it.

3.  I would add an extra female or two if I could get them easily......

[babblefish1960]

Interesting question.

The rams and the apisto's, though different breeders, rams are open spawners and the apisto you have is a cave spawner, they otherwise compete directly for food and space, the lower strata of the tank.

As a general rule of thumb, that is changeable with specific fish, the females require one square foot of floor space each, and the males require about two square feet. This includes many hidey holes where they can disappear from each other when the mood strikes them, and of course, plantings and bits of wood to physically bar the view of each other too.

As for dithers, cardinals are a good choice, as are pencil fish such as trifasciatus and such. However, torpedo shaped fish are little piranhas and are quick to eat fry, but if there is good cover, the spawning fish will make good use of it and fend off the little carnivorous torpedoes.

As for your immediate concern, go ahead and throw in a few dithers now, it should help with the belligerence and keep the male amused all day.

[RedFish]

Thank you babblefish - great info there - I really should have read more about these guys before I got them, *sheepish grin* - I usually research everything to death, but didn't this time.

Interesting challenge you propose, I do want cardinals so I will try to make sure the new tank has lots of hidey spots and caves for the apistos and their fry.

The new filter is cycling on the old tank so I am hoping to get all the other pieces together by the end of next week and get these guys into a larger and more diverse home.

[zapisto]

are you you have the two sex ?

[babblefish1960]

That is a very good question zapisto, one of the things that apistos do when there are no females around, or not enough of them, or even too little space, is the males will take the role of a pseudo female, where they hide as much of their colour as possible to avoid being harassed, going so far as to even play a little of the female role, if this is the case, the dominant male may have figured out the ruse and is ticked off about it.

[RedFish]

Now I can see him but not her, they are freaking me out, she better be alive and just hiding well!


Hmmm, I just went and looked at pictures on-line.   Yes, pretty sure they are male and female.    From what I remember, they are quite different.   I think they look just like the male and female on http://www.thecichlidgallery.com/article_cacatuoides.htm   but I will have a real good look tomorrow when I see them both.

[babblefish1960]

It is amazing sometimes how well they can hide right in your face. One thing to look for with apistos would be the pectoral rays, the female is always mostly black, and the male is not so much, very pronounced difference. Have fun, hide and seek is the best part.

[Toss]

Lynn, I can help you making  caves from coconut shell. I am free Thu or Fri. All I need is the coconut 

[beowulf]

Lynn, I can help you making  caves from coconut shell. I am free Thu or Fri. All I need is the coconut 

That could be in interesting mini-workshop at an OVAS meeting.  Would be funny to watch everyone walking in with a coconut. 

[RedFish]

Lynn, I can help you making  caves from coconut shell. I am free Thu or Fri. All I need is the coconut 

I will take you up on that, I will start the search for a fresh coconut(s).  I will be in touch!

[zapisto]

Now I can see him but not her, they are freaking me out, she better be alive and just hiding well!


Hmmm, I just went and looked at pictures on-line.   Yes, pretty sure they are male and female.    From what I remember, they are quite different.   I think they look just like the male and female on http://www.thecichlidgallery.com/article_cacatuoides.htm   but I will have a real good look tomorrow when I see them both.

very easy.
look at the pelvien tail and check if the two fisrt spine is black.
female have them black

[babblefish1960]

You won't be disappointed, Toss is a gifted coconut cracker!

You can pick them up at almost any grocery store, be wary of coconuts that explode however, as they can be sold over-ripe sometimes.

[RedFish]

Zapisto, I checked and the first two spines on the pelvic fins are black , yay!    She is female.

She is hanging out in one upper corner a lot, it is behind the filter so thats why I couldn't see her.   Sometimes I see them just floating beside one another, then he shakes his tail at her, and then he "attacks" her and she takes off again to her little corner.
One week until they are in a bigger tank - I got 5 little cardinals today (lol, a friend listened to me moan about my fish and went and bought them for me  - I have nice friends!) and the male isn't chasing them but he does like to hang out near them sometimes.   Mostly he patrols the tank, he is a very busy guy.   What funny characters they all are!

[zapisto]

Zapisto, I checked and the first two spines on the pelvic fins are black , yay!    She is female.

She is hanging out in one upper corner a lot, it is behind the filter so thats why I couldn't see her.   Sometimes I see them just floating beside one another, then he shakes his tail at her, and then he "attacks" her and she takes off again to her little corner.
One week until they are in a bigger tank - I got 5 little cardinals today (lol, a friend listened to me moan about my fish and went and bought them for me  - I have nice friends!) and the male isn't chasing them but he does like to hang out near them sometimes.   Mostly he patrols the tank, he is a very busy guy.   What funny characters they all are!

normal behavior
everthing will get back to quite and soon the female will kick the xxxx of the male
welcome to dwarf cichlid keeper workd

[RedFish]

Thank you Zapisto, today was different.    They swam around together, and sometimes she told him to get lost.   Veeeeery interesting fishies.