HOB Canister Filters and other question

[hamstercaster]

Anyone using these?  I've seen them at Walmart for 99$ and I think there were also some at Big Al's yesterday when I went but not sure how much they were.  Are they any good?

On the same token, I'm looking into buying a second filter for my 55g.  I have a Marineland HOB right now that is good for a 55g.  Don't know the exact model number but it uses two Pengouins "C" cartridges and does not have a Bio-Wheel.  Now, it's been highly suggested that I get a second filter for my Tang/Malawi tank as they supposedly require well filtrated water.  I'll be buying a HOB filter for sure and am contemplating the afforementionned HOB canister filter or just a regular HOB filter.  Should I really aim for a second filter than made for 55g tanks or can I just take one that is good for a 20g or 30g tank since I already have the appropriate size filter for my tank.  Needless to say it would be cheaper to buy a 20g or 30g filter than another 55g filter.... So what do you all think?

thanks

[Malyon18]

Personally I have a 50Gal African cichlid tank and for filtration I use a Fluval 405 and an aquaclear 50, if I was you I would go for another filter for a 50gal if you can afford it. Hope that helps.

[hamstercaster]

Tanks Malyon... I can afford it but I was hoping that I did not have too go that high for a second filter.  Why pay more if I don't have too lol... but seems like I need to 


thanks

[RoxyDog]

"they" always say you can never have too much filtration. 

[hamstercaster]

Thanks Roxy... But who are "they"... Are "they" the people whow want so much filtration and water flow to surf the waves in their tank    I also tend to think that more is better than not enough.

[kennyman]

I ran the same kind of hob but with biowheels and secondary media baskets in my 55 cichlid tank. I think it was enough biological filtration but not enough circulation. I would suggest a second hob for the other end of the tank. Cheep is fine as long as the filter allows you to customize media. The fancy spray bar bio-wheel thing is gimmicky in my oppinion. Not so much the biowheels, but the spraybar mods to the newer emperor line.

Canisters are more expensive because they are supposedly made better. They also should be filtering all the water before it hits the impeller. I find the greatest weakness in hobs is they suck dirty water right into the mechanical workings of the unit and those impellers are not cheap.

[hamstercaster]

Thanks Kennyman...  I'm somewhat hesitant about canister filters, not mainly becaue of the price but because of some of the discussions that were had here on the forums about Fluvals breaking down and inondating basements etc..  I guess it would be the same problems for HOB canister filters too.  The HOB, although they may have the impeller problem (was is a impeller anyway lol) are cheaper and more "water disaster" safe me thinks...

[kennyman]

I am happy with the one canister I own. It is the only one I have ever bought but it really is nice to have. But I have four of five hob's and they are cheep and simple. The impeller is the little spinney thing that sucks up the water. In hobs, the impeller pulls water up the intake and the water flows through the filter inserts and back intothe tank. In a canister the water drains into the unit, forces its way through the filter material and is the pumped back into the tank by the impeller.

[hamstercaster]

I see... thaks Kenny. Once again I have learned a new thing on the boards... and sitll have much to learn too

[darkdep]

Don't be afraid of Canisters.  Canisters are great filters; yes some people have the occasional Fluval incident but overall it's uncommon. 

My thinking with regards to filtration is that most people have more than they need, based on a general lack of consideration of what you're filtering.  The PRIMARY purpose of a filter is to keep your fish alive; and biological filtration is the only thing needed for that.  Biobugs grow to the size of the food available to them and I'd be surprised to find a tank with any modern filter that had too little biological filtration. 

The "more is better" usually applies to mechanical filtration, or taking bits out of the water.  This isn't generally necessary for the fish's survival or health (after all, you aren't actually taking any of that stuff out of the water, you're simply putting it somewhere else).  More mechanical keeps the water clearer, but sometimes things like placement and water flow can have a bigger effect than just "adding another filter".

For your knowledge, Canisters are VERY good biological filters, but only ok on mechanical, regardless of size (The Magnum type canisters are exceptions; those are exceptional mechanical filters).

[hamstercaster]

Don't be afraid of Canisters.  Canisters are great filters; yes some people have the occasional Fluval incident but overall it's uncommon. 

My thinking with regards to filtration is that most people have more than they need, based on a general lack of consideration of what you're filtering.  The PRIMARY purpose of a filter is to keep your fish alive; and biological filtration is the only thing needed for that.  Biobugs grow to the size of the food available to them and I'd be surprised to find a tank with any modern filter that had too little biological filtration. 

The "more is better" usually applies to mechanical filtration, or taking bits out of the water.  This isn't generally necessary for the fish's survival or health (after all, you aren't actually taking any of that stuff out of the water, you're simply putting it somewhere else).  More mechanical keeps the water clearer, but sometimes things like placement and water flow can have a bigger effect than just "adding another filter".

For your knowledge, Canisters are VERY good biological filters, but only ok on mechanical, regardless of size (The Magnum type canisters are exceptions; those are exceptional mechanical filters).

See now I'm a little lost... blame that on the newbie syndrome if you will but I'm not sure I can quite make the difference between Biological and mechanical filter... Is a marineland HOB filter mechanical or biological... if it has filter media like the rite size cartridges and it does trap or "Hold" bacteria, does that make it a biological filter?  And going by what you just said I presume that you believe that I would not need an extra biological or mechanical filter? I think I'm in dire need of some type of terminology course of some type lol

[darkdep]

Back to the filter basics, there are three types of filtration:

- Mechanical Filtration:  This is simply the idea of running water through something that traps physical particles such as leaf bits, poop, uneaten food, detritus, etc.

- Chemical Filtration:  Most commonly using Charcoal, this type of filtration is used to take certain unwanted chemicals out of the water.

- Biological Filtration:  This is a natural set of bacteria which, to be blunt, feed on fish pee.  They break down ammonia (which comes from fish waste, uneaten food, dead fish, etc) and convert it through a number of processes into less harmful nitrate.

Biological filtration isn't actually done by the "Biomedia"; Biomedia is simply a high-surface-area substance that provides lots of space for bacteria to grow.  Technically these bacteria exist everywhere in your tank, but ideally they are concentrated in a location where water flows; simply because ammonia molecules will get to them.

Many experienced fishkeepers (I hesitate to say "most" but it may be that way) do not use any form of chemical filtration on a regular basis.  This is because there is generally no reason any unwanted chemicals will make it into your water in the first place, among other reasons.

All a filter is is a device that sucks water out and blows it over media of some type.  Sponge/floss is media that traps waste, and thus is an ideal mechanical filter.  Charcoal as previously mentioned absorbs chemicals, so is used for chemical filtration.  Highly pitted ceramic rings are often used nowadays for biological filtration, just because it has a lot of surface area.

Think about what I've written, and you can answer your own question as to what your HOB does. 

There is no perfect filter.  All of them do some things better than others.  Aquaclear HOB's, for example, are well known as great mechanical filters, whereas most canisters are excellent biological filters.

What Model is your Marineland filter, now?

[RoxyDog]

almost all kinds of filters do both mechanical and biological at the same time.  the foam/floss/cartridges trap the physical waste (mechanical) and the biowheels/bioballs/biomax/and to some extent catridges have the bacterial "bugs" attached to it.  

I think if you find your water dirty when you look at it, then go for an aquaclear HOB as they are better mechanical filters.  if you are worried about the bioload in your tank, go with a canister filter as they are better at biological filtration and breaking down that bioload.  does that help?  

edit: yeah, what he said (as we posted @ the same time.  lol)

[hamstercaster]

Thanks, it does answer my question.  I may just give those HOB canister filters a try in the somewhat near future and see...  I'd rather not have anything on the floor as the tank is in my wife's daycare center and wouldn't want any of the kids to "accidently"  hit it or whatever.

thanks again