Large Air Pump recommendations

[darkdep]

Hi folks,

I'm running enough air in my tanks now that I'd really like to dispense with the multiple pumps and put together something a little more sophisticated.  I have borrowed a bunch of pumps which I'd like to return as well

What I want to do is place the pump somewhat central in the room; two main lines can come off, one line will go to split off and run three Hydrosponge V's in three 10gallon tanks; the other line will go to the other side of the room (up to my bar ) to run 4-5 Hydrosponge V's, as well as 2-3 outputs for brine shrimp hatching.  A last line would run over to my fish wall which would potentially run up to 8 airstones, primarily just for additional water aeration, decoration, and circulation.

So, that's potentially 19 outlets.  Depths are a little different between the drops, but I'm hoping that could be dealt with.

So, what I'm looking for is recommendations on an air pump, as well as designs for the distribution....any ideas?

[freshwater]

A major head lost, if not the greatest, in a piping system is the frictional lost created between the pipe wall and the fluid that's in contact w/ it, results in significant pressure drop if the length of the pipe is much greater then the diameter.

So I would suggest, for the two main lines, use the thickest tubing that would fit, and split into thinner tubing just before entering the tanks. Another reason for using thicker tubing is to hopefully create laminar flow instead of turbulent, which would again reduce head lost. Also avoid sharp bend in the tubings.

As for the air pump, compair the pump efficiency, this will play a more significant role($$$) as the pump gets larger.   

P.S.: after u have finished installing everything, and wanna someone to do flow analysis, I will be glad to come over and     check out ur fishes Imeanyourairpumpandstuff.

[darkdep]

LOL Anytime Zi

I'm actually thinking there might need to be three mains:

The first (smaller) split can all be piped behind wall; the outlet can come through the wall underneath the cabinet the tanks are on, then a drilled hole in the top could bring the main up to a splitter/gang valve/manifold (what's the correct term for this?).  The main (thick) tubing could come up to the valve, and then the valve can split off to regular silicone air tubing to supply each tank.

The second main could run behind wall as well, short run, would come out of the wall near my bar.  This would go to a valve to handle 8 drops (5 x hydrosponge, 3 x brine shrimp).

The third main I'd like to run up a wall corner, then along the ceiling to the other side of the room.  This would fork off to the 8 drops for the decorative bubbles.


Main 1 and 2 are important to have proper pressure of course, Main 3 is somewhat less important.  Main 3 would have a lot more "run" between the pump and the outputs too, I imagine this would affect things.

I know you can get vampire air taps to screw directly into PVC piping to provide the ability to put drops anywhere along the mains...anyone used these?  Are they strong/stable?  Or should I go with premade valves?

Don't know how I would interface a larger diameter piping (either PVC, or vinyl) with the little valves...

[freshwater]

then a drilled hole in the top could bring the main up to a splitter/gang valve/manifold (what's the correct term for this?). 

well I only no if it in a plane, it would be called manifold, but that's all I no,

Don't know how I would interface a larger diameter piping (either PVC, or vinyl) with the little valves...

really stretchy rubber tubing maybe, but has 2 b really stretchy, lol.
Or maybe cap the open end, drill a hole for the valves, and then seal it w/ something?

Oh it's times like this that made me spend hours in the plumbing section @ Home Depot looking through every part...

Here is a long shot, if you can get free access to a rapid prototyping machine, I can draw a transition part for the pipes in Pro/E(will only take 5 min), and then do a 3D print out.

[babblefish1960]

For the piping you wish to do over as large an area as you are talking, you really want to go with a linear pump, it is a few bucks more, but you can essentially forget about it for years.

There are the occasional folk who have squirrel fans from car heating systems jury rigged as blowers, much cheaper, and still effective if you don't mind the noise.

As for the transfer system, you want a much larger diameter piping that is used as a manifold closer to where you require air taps, pretty elegant really, you can buy the barbs separately to install at each point on the pipe where you need thereby reducing your fluid friction loss as much as possible.

[darkdep]

Any suggestions on the diameter piping I should be planning for for the main lines?  I'll try to keep the bends to a minimum but in the interest of keeping the pipes "fairly" well hidden, the line to the main tanks would likely have to have several 90's in it.  I'm guessing I could compensate with wider pipe?

[Saltcreep]

I'm thinking of doing something very similar and for the same reasons. Instead of thinking about traditional air pumps, I'm looking at a compressor / storage system instead. Should work fine as long as its not oil-lubricated. I plan to run a medium sized compressor into an eight gallon pressure vessel. The tank should stabilize at about 125 psi. A pressure regulator on the outlet side brings the pressue down to what an airline can stand. The individual airlines will be fed from 1/2" CPVC plumbing pipe. I have no idea how many outlets it will run but, you can see similar systems in pet shops that are feeding dozens of tanks. Any setups I've seen have the control valves glued right into the CPVC. You might also consider the valves used for irrigation systems instead of the crappy valves from the LFS.

Stay away from those little ratlers that you can buy for tires, blow-up toys and the like; they pump huge pressure but very little volume over a long period of time. What were looking for here is a abundance of volume over pressure.

BTW - Babble, do you have any plans or anything showing how a squirrel cage blower could be used. How would you harness and transport the air. How to generate pressure.

[artw]

A long time ago I was considering doing this as well, I was looking at various installations and most people use 1/2" = 1" PVC for the main lines and drop down regular airline tubing into the tanks.  Larry Johnston in Hamilton was using some sort of car blower similar to what Babble was talking about..
At that time CRLCA sold linear blower pumps as well but you'd have to check their website to see if they still do. they are probably rather expensive and loud... you'd probably want to put any blower or linear pump in a separate room, and plumb it to the fish room.

my situation was a little different because I had 36 tanks in a tiny one bedroom apartment.. I couldn't exactly use a blower so I was stuck with using a bunch of the biggest airpumps I could find.. even a Hagen Elite whatever-kind-big-one could power 6 or 7 10's

good luck DD..  I wish I was able to make a cool central system type thing when I was doing it.

[bitterman]

When I got my Mpimbwe from the breeder in Bowlmanville, he had a big air pump (about 14"-18"x14"-18"x14") with manifold and about 24+ air lines run to his tanks. He said the unit cost about $200 and runs about 12-14 tanks. Each of his 125 gallon tanks had 2 of the biggest hydro sponge filters in it. The longest run was probably about 25 feet. 

He was in a transitition (Getting rid of his canister filters), Not sure about line drop problems, but the hydro spong fiilters we bubbling like crazy!!!

Bruce

[Woody]

I have two of these setups running, a small Gast air pump that runs 20 filters in one room, a little giant pump that runs 80 filters. from 5 gallons to 35 gallons, so various depths.
1/2 inch PVC pipe from Canadian Tire, adjustable valves, this is a must from the pet store, and airline tubing.
I have found that when I use a 1" clear flexible tubing and slide the pipe inside of this that I get better air flow. And it so much easier to go around corners and bends. Acklands Granger is where I purchased it. By the foot.
The large one I have has six separated pieces of this 1/2" PVC pipe with the airvalves drilled and siliconed in place.
If you check out Jehmco they have all the supplies needed and even have ready made manifolds good to go. Just plug and play.

Woody

[darkdep]

Jeff, any chance you can show some pics of your setup?  Sounds like you have the closest thing to what I'm looking to do.

[darkdep]

An update on calculations.  This is a very confusing thing to size for on paper because so many air pumps use different ratings, and it's hard to figure out how much you need per drop.

It looks like you want about 700cc/min of air to run a typical box filter, without airstone.  This is equivilent to 0.7 litres/minute.  Probably want to bump up to 1000cc or 1 litre/minute per drop if using airstones (which I probably will be on most drops).

This would mean a desired air movement of 19 litres per minute, not taking into account losses due to the distribution piping.  Experienced people correct me here; I'm thinking if I size for about 30lpm I should be able to take into account the loss from distribution and bleed off extra air via an open valve somewhere to make sure pressure in the pipes doesn't get too high.

TanganyikaH2O has the Dolphin AV-50 pump for $109 which does up to 50lpm air.  Would this be overkill?  It would give me some growth but I've read that if too much backpressure happens I might kill the pump?

[babblefish1960]

Yes it is all confusing, you are dealing with a lot of physics and mechanics of fluids. This is why mechanical engineers spend so long in love with a calculator.

Without going in to a lot of details, simply because there are so many variables.

Suffice it to say, that you will run 3/4" pipe minimum from the pump to your various manifolds and 1" would be better. Use the white pvc pipe, that will be most excellent. You can either use barbs at each drop, or plumb tees at drops and run manifolds as you have stacked tanks.

The Dolphin AV-50 pump that you mention is as small as I would recommend for your application, particularly as you have such a long run. 25 feet is a long way, and every 90 degree bend, depending upon a number of factors with the pump, is roughly equivalent to a 3 foot pipe, and more if you opt for the 3/4" pipe. Make your bends as long as possible, so flexible rubber tubing would be good here, it would shorten your run calculation and reduce flow rate loss.

And at that price, it is a good buy. And yes, if you don't reduce back pressure, you will most certainly shorten the useful life of the pump as well as reduce immediately available air supply.

[Woody]

I will take some photographs this weekend and post them.

Woody

Jeff, any chance you can show some pics of your setup?  Sounds like you have the closest thing to what I'm looking to do.

[babblefish1960]

I will take some photographs this weekend and post them.

Woody

Really looking forward to the pictures Woody, could we have a boo?!