New to the group

[Kats]

Wow... nice to see so much info about fish (other than recipes!!!)  I always loved aquariums and had not had one for years until my 15 year old daughter requested one for xmas....  She is pretty good at taking care of them but, I love doing it too so I guess the tank is for both of us.

She wanted angel fish....  her first fish....  I bought them thinking we'd be seeing them float shortly but we've managed to keep them alive AND I think they have outgrown their tank.  We bought her a 10-gallon...  5 angels, 3 white clouds and a chinese algie eater later....  we'll be upgrading to a 20 gallon shortly... hopefully everyone will survive the move!!  I'll see if they sell psy fish, in case they need therapy!!!!!   

Well, I'll keep an eye on this site for sure....  see you around!

Kats

[MikeM]

Welcome to the group, you'll find no shortage of advice and suggestions here.  Though if you spend too much time looking about, it won't be long before you're considering more than just one new tank

Keep an eye on that Chinese Algae Eater, I hear they can become aggressive as they age.  Angel's can also get fussy for space as they grow up and reach spawning age, even a 20 might be too small for 5.  There are plenty of experts to correct me if I'm wrong   Just some things to think about as you plan your 20 G.

[succinctfish]

Welcome to the site and the crazy world of fishkeeping.    Angelfish are great fish, very pretty and personable.  It looks like you'll be needing an even bigger tank soon, or at least more than one new tank; adult angelfish get quite large and need more space than a 20 gallon, especially if you've got 5 angels.  Just wait until they are ready to breed, then things get really crazy.    I have 4 in a 50 gallon at the moment, and they personally don't feel they have enough room now that they have paired off. 
I agree with MikeM about the chinese algae eater, nasty things when they get bigger, you might want to consider otocinclus for algae control, and some nice corydoras for bottom feeders.  They are both fun to watch and won't harass the angelfish.

[Kats]

50Gallons.... wow, my husband will have a fit....  we are working on a "10G at a time" principle here...  I got him to agree to a 20G tank  when I told him you had 4 Angels for a 50G he said: "can we put the angel fish up for adoption and get a gold fish instead?"

I did not realize they would need that much room.  I had only guppies and mollies before and I did not do my research this time 

When angels breed, do they eat their offsprings?  Will they even breed if they don't have enough room?

We have 3 black and white (tad bit of yellow) angels and 2 kinda silver and black ones... any tricks for determining which sex they are?  They are about 9 months old...when are they considered adults and ready to breed?

I'll definitely keep an eye on the chinese algae eater....  he's only a couple of months old now and the bottom feeders we've had so far have been the ones with the less luck in our tank.   

Thanks for all the info... this is great!!  Gotta tell my daughter that we have to slowly convince her father she needs a 50G tank... she's got him wrapped around her finger... I can smell another xmas present coming!!!

Good night!
Kats

[MikeM]

Once again, I'm not an expert, but I planned my tank around angels so I did a lot of research:  Some angelfish have been known to eat their eggs after spawning, but from what I understand they generally make good parents after a few tries.  Dedicated breeders remove the eggs.  I have 4 in my 75 G hoping for a breeding pair to emerge as they grow up (they're about loonie sized now), and even after researching a fair bit, I'm starting to think that might be too small a space if I get two pairs.  There's no easy way (if any way at all) to sex angelfish before they get to spawning age.

The bigger concern with the small space is the territorial disputes.  Angelfish are cichlids and get very territorial come breeding time, and will defend their breeding area from the other fish.  The problem with a small space like a 20 G, is that the whole tank becomes the breeding area.  The other fish in the tank will be harassed constantly, if not killed, because the angelfish feel they own the whole tank.

What you're going through is pretty much what happened to me when I first got into this a few months ago, fortunately before I'd made any purchases.  The more I researched the more I realized that the fish I wanted to keep needed their space.  So now I have three tanks and still don't have all the space for the fish I want to keep.

[dan2x38]

Hey always nice to meet another fishkeeper... as mentioned a lot of know how here a wealth of many years of aquarium experience!

Yes those chinese algae eater loss their taste for algae and soon enjoy the slime coat on fish. They can attach to a fish and remove a piece. I made the error of getting gold fish for my son. They are on their 2nd tank and growing. My son is sad but we have had to find them a new home. I know nothing bout angel fish except they need room.

It is not the tank that costs the money it is all the fixings: gravel, plants or decorations... a lot of kits have all you need but I know I've replaced most of the parts later on... Get the biggest tank ya can because you will need it... for the 1st one any ways... 

[Kats]

Thanks for all the tips!  Got my husband convinced to buy a 30G AND that it needed to be in the living room (for all to see!!).  I could probably buy bigger if we put the tank in the music room but it would be out of the way   not easy to decide!!  Both locations are perfect, no direct sunlight but plenty of light and inside walls...  Any suggestions?

I've posted a few questions about equipment in the Equipment forum...  I always LOVED fish tanks but, earlier in life, I could only afford the 10G size...  now that I'm all grown up and that I can afford bigger, I realize that there are many many many tanks out there and that the bigger they are, the more I like them!!!!  Wow!!

Oh well, stay tuned!  We should have one purchased by the end of the week, my poor angels can't wait for the expansion!!!

Kats

[dan2x38]

So keep trying! You got him to go from 10 to 20 then to 30. He will fold... LOL 

[Kats]

wou ou!!     Just got him to agree to a 40G!!!!!   

Now should I push for a 45G?   

I seem to be on a roll.... stay tuned.... told you we were on a "10G at a time" program (is that part of the Aquarist Anonymous motto?)

[BigDaddy]

wou ou!!     Just got him to agree to a 40G!!!!!   

Now should I push for a 45G?  

I seem to be on a roll.... stay tuned.... told you we were on a "10G at a time" program (is that part of the Aquarist Anonymous motto?)

Heavens no!  The motto is "It is easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission"

[dan2x38]

OK now is time to shoot for 55 then hold there... LOL  Ya got him on the ropes... as the saying goes, "he'll fold like a cheap carpet" LMAO

[Jeff1192]

All you do now is you go to the fish store without him and bring back a 55. You just explain to him that they had no 40 gallon tanks in stock so you had to get the 55! 

[Kats]

You guys sound like you have experience with these tactics   

Very tempting....  it's 9h00 or so... stores are opening shortly....  hummm  if I could take a couple of measurements and sneak my way out....  hummmm

Very tempting!!!!!  We'd do a 15G leap...  dunno....

Stay tuned!!!

[RossW]

The real question is... Would you husband know a 55g from a 40g?  As far as measurements go it is a sublte difference to the eye.  Here are some sample sizes taken from http://ovas.ca/index.php?page=53

40 Breeder 36 x 18 x 16
40 Long 48 x 13 x 16
55 48 x 13 x 20

I would reccomend going with a 4' tank and a 4'x18" stand.  This will lprovide for the best upgrade options come Boxing Day sales 

[dan2x38]

Listen to Ross he once had just the 10g then 25g then 3 tanks and a 75g in the mix...  We are fast learners... 

[Kats]

We did our pick!   (drum roll..... and the winner is:)

a 46G bow front tank!!!!   Very pretty!!  OK, it's not a 55G but this one fits the stand we have (less to spend), it's pretty and it will go well in our music room where the space is limited.  I love my hubby!!!  His take on it is that we can get this one for now (which is already 26G more than he had planned on buying) and that, once it's been running for a while, we could invest in a SW setup!!!!!   

We will be ordering it on wednesday... planning on getting my OVAS membership between now and next Saturday (at big Al's) and then I can buy the accessories/filters/lightings and enjoy the discount (and the advice of the members selling the memberships at big Al's!!!)

Merry Xmas to me!!!   

[BigDaddy]

Kats... you can buy it online here using Paypal, or you can come out to a Big Al's next week when we will be having our membership drive and you could actually meet one or two of us in person