Getting Rid of Hydra?

[dan2x38]

I have been researching Hydra and it seems I have this in my CPD hatchery tank and spawning tank. I've read of several treatments for it from: electro charges with 6 volt batteries, rasing temp. to 100f, hydrogen peroxide, Fluke Tabs, etc...

What is the best treatment method without killing my fish or plants. In 1 tank there is Java Fern, Java Moss, Egeria Densa, & Rotala Indica. The hatchery has only Java Moss.

I need some advice on this because I've not been getting any fry as of late...  The most common treatment researched was Fluke Tabs at 1/2 dosage, 2nd was hydrogen peroxide...

[MikeM]

Seems like it plagues CPD fry tanks.  I've seen lots of suggestions that copper works well, if you have no inverts in the tank.  See here: http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=19763.0

[dan2x38]

I've not found the exact dosage of Hydrogen Peroxide for treatment for Hydra. I did find an article for treating algae with Hydrogen Peroxide it said the dose would be 2 tbsp/10 gal. I have a 5.5 with 2 fry currently so I added 1 tbsp as a test. I also have a grow-out tank with Hydra on the plants. I removed a Java fern on a rock with lots of Hydra filled a bowl with 1 gallon and added a double doseage than above. Now I will wait and see. been viewing the action with a flash light and magnifying glass. I know I got no life... 

I've read that it would take a very large dose of Hydrogen Peroxide to potentially harm your fish, inverts, or plants. After all it is H2O2 where water is H2O. Some pretty good reads on the topic of Hydrogen Peroxide & aquaria.

Is is not the CPDs that breed the Hydra but the BBS eggs carrying them. In TFH there was a great article on hatching BBS. It said to add 3 drops of bleach per 2 litre hatchery. I was doing this the first several batches but stopped doing it. In the beginning I had no hydra. The article said the bleach kills any parasites and before the BBS hatch the bleach evaporates. There was no difference in the hatch with or without the bleach. I had great fry hatches & no Hydra.

[BigDaddy]

Just because H2O are the first three letters in H2O2.. don't take it lightly.  It is a strong oxidizer and does have the potential to kill fish and inverts...

Always better to err on the side of caution

[fischkopp]

.... 2 tbsp/10 gal H2O2....

thats 25ml/38L, be careful, i find this way too high -> check this post

[dan2x38]

I am lucky having 2 fry in the tank to test... what about the Fluke Tabs?

Close to 2 hrs. since I added the H2O2. In the fry tank both are doing fine: 1 is 2 weeks old the other a few days. In that tank I dosed 1 tbsp to 5.5 gal. In the 1 gal. bowl with the Java Fern I double dosed the ratio. With a magnifying glass it appears some of the Hydra are withering up but still attached to the leaves. Of course at this point hard to make a count but I think there are a few less on one leave I am consentrating on. By morning will be a better observation.

If my fry make it through the night I will do a 50% WC and look for more Hydra. If there are more I will add some more H2O2 and test again.

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Another Hydra treatment... Has any used Flubendazole? If so where can it be found?

[dan2x38]

I am lucky having 2 fry in the tank to test... what about the Fluke Tabs?

Close to 2 hrs. since I added the H2O2. In the fry tank both are doing fine: 1 is 2 weeks old the other a few days. In that tank I dosed 1 tbsp to 5.5 gal. In the 1 gal. bowl with the Java Fern I double dosed the ratio. With a magnifying glass it appears some of the Hydra are withering up but still attached to the leaves. Of course at this point hard to make a count but I think there are a few less on one leave I am consentrating on. By morning will be a better observation.

If my fry make it through the night I will do a 50% WC and look for more Hydra. If there are more I will add some more H2O2 and test again.

*******************************************************************************************

Another Hydra treatment... Has any used Flubendazole? If so where can it be found?

OK... here are my results after adding H2O2.

In the 1 gallon bowl with a double dose at the ratio 2 tbsp/10 gal. there was no Hydra at all on the Java Fern. Also there was none on the sides of the bowl or free swimming. The Java fern was perfect no wilting leaves, discolouration, or leave loss. The root was also perfect no discolouration, withering, or loss. I used the magnifying glass & flashlight to examine including top & bottom of the leaves.

In the 5.5 fry tank containing the 2 fry I had dosed at the ratio of 2 tbsp/10 gal. This morning the fry are still swimming with no noticeable signs of stress. They eat when feed. They look exactly the same. There are some Hydra visible I think. It is hard to tell 100%. I have done a 25% WC and double dosed this time. Now I wait and see.

Q. Why would the H2O2 kill the Hydra?

[fischkopp]

....  Java fern was perfect no wilting leaves, discolouration, or leave loss....

Java ferns are pretty hard and not really good indicator plants. You need more sensitive plants like vals, hornwort or moos to notice to drastic changes

... I have done a 25% WC and double dosed this time...

The better way is: apply H2O2 first, wait 30 min, and then do a water change. H2O2 will break down to H20 and O2 anyway after a while, so the only reason for a water change is reducing the stress to fish and plants by diluting H2O2.

Q. Why would the H2O2 kill the Hydra?

H2O2 increases the redox potential quite quickly, organisms with a more simple cell structure - like monads (algae) and simple multicellular creatures (hydra) -  dont handle these changes as well as higher developed more complex organisms. The higher oxidation will literally destroy the cell membrane and hence kill these little critters whereas higher developed organisms with a more specialized cell structure have some kind of protection on their outside cell layer (easy example: scales)

[dan2x38]

It is 4:30pm and my 2 fry are still alive after treating 5.5 gal. tank with 2 tbsp. of H2O2 this morning & last nigh 1 tbsp. I have examined the tank with a magnifying glass and have not seen any Hydra at all.

So far what I have found and read is it will breakdown by binding to the extra oxygen molecule to the H2O. Then froming the O2 the additional oxygen molecule will finally be released creating harmless oxygen.

Now these findings and my testing is with over the counter 3% diluted Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). The H2O2 is diluted with pure distilled water. Here is just one intertesting link on H2O2 where it is even used on food & as a mouth rinse.

I've read about H2O2's properties being useful on treating BBA, Green Algae, & fungus on fish eggs. You mix a solution of 2 tbsp/10 gal. Then with a eye dropper apply directly to the algae. They suggest taking a piece of the plant and testing separately before treating the entire effected plant/s. This solution has been used successfully on Java Moss.

No matter I am still continuing to test and observe before adding any H2O2 to my other CPD tanks. The risk at this point is just 2 fry in my 5.5 gal. tank. The risks are a lot higher in the other tanks: 1) 20 gallon with 20 adult CPD, 2) 35-40 2 month old CPDs, and 3) 30-35 2.5 month old CPD. Tanks 1 & 3 have hardy cover plants for the CPD.

If anyone else as any facts, opinions, whatever on this treatment/theory please jump in! I for one need your ideas & advice to formulate a conclusion.

[dan2x38]

I treated my 6 gal. CPD juvenile tank with H2O2. I added a dosage of 1.5 tbsp/6 gal. After a couple hours all my 35, 2.5 month old CPDs are fine and the Hydra are dieing off.

Here is one of just many useful articles I've found on this topic. I ordered 40 Fluke tabs because I've found many links like this one that have stated successful treatment with these with no affect to the fry.

The scarest thing I've been reading is that the Hydra is not introduced into our tanks by BBS but likely from our treated tap water... UCK!  Tomorrow I am going to examine my water bins for Hydra... 

This research has opened up a whole new can of worms to me... no pun intended... LOL

[irene]

Hi Dan,

I tried H2O2 on my first tank (before I developed a severe case of MTS  ) for algae.  It was a 10 gal and I dosed about 2 TBSP.  Fish were fine but quite a few shrimp died.  Maybe inverts are more sensitive?

Irene

[dan2x38]

Irene I do agree. After treating my 2 tanks the pond snail population in one is zero so far the other there are only a couple, literally. It seems this could also be a cure for pond snails... yaaHooo... but wait... many of us have cherry shrimp, MTS, Amano, plus fish eggs... not good! I spotted snail nests with my magnifying glass after treatment they'd turned greyish/white. Do snails eggs change colour? How long before they hatch?

If the snails eggs dried up then I guess any eggs would be destroyed? I have not treated a tank with Cories, Loaches, Puffers, or other scaleless fish? That also could be a concern!

In the one tank there was a large infestation. There appears to be some Hydra still alive. I will treat that tank again. Over night that juvenile tank I treated was fine this morning. All 35 CPDs are still swimming strong, eating, have same colour, & behaviour.

If this is a long term treatment then it will be worth a batch of eggs.

From my research I'd read contradicting articles about where Hydra is introduced from? I hatched a batch of BBS left it out over night at several intervals inspected there was no Hydra. The other source of introduction might have been my frozen daphina. I thawed some left it out same as BBS could find no Hydra. I have yet to examine my water bins but will shortly other sources say it could be the tap water. At BA Innes talked to Jody. He suspects that the Hydra are introduced from the wild caught CPDs.

While raising fry IMO this is a feasible treatment to prevent fry loss or wipe out from Hydra. But is it long term... Beware your inverts & scaleless fish... which I have none of in any fry tanks... Display tanks can be made ugly with the glass covered with these little buggers which I suspect would raise havoc on baby shrimp?

Instead of finding the treatment I would like to find the source... "An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure!"

Does anyone have any ideas? Any input or opinions on this...

[BigDaddy]

It is not uncommon for hydra to be on plants either... another reason some fry owners may wish to QT or disinfect plants before introduction

[dan2x38]

It is not uncommon for hydra to be on plants either... another reason some fry owners may wish to QT or disinfect plants before introduction

I figured that too... But have added no plants to any of the 3 affected tanks. The plants in the one are java moss, egeria, java moss, rotala indicia all my other tanks have no hydra. the common elements between the 3 tanks are: newly hatched BBS, frozen daphina, treated & matured tap water, and CPDs. The one tank has no plants, the hatchery tank only ever has java moss swapped back and forth with my breeder tank which has the other plants.

I would think that the plants are not the issue...