We have eggs!!!!!!!!!! Take 2

[Kats]

 
That is the last thing I expected!!  Our tank (46g) is only a couple of weeks old, the last pair of angels (marbled) went into it last week and... surprise...  they are laying the eggs as we speak!!!

One of my silver angels and one of the marbled one have been at each other "throat" all week!  I was wondering if I would have to remove a pair...  now I know what that behavior was all about!   Probably fighting off for ideal location for egg laying!!! 

This is very sudden... I'm kind of "out of the water" on this one.  Should we just let them be and see what happens??  How long does it take before we see fry??  Should the fry be removed then or isolated??

Wow!  Now I have to start thinking about names!?! 

[Jeff1192]

Maybe it's their way of saying that they like their new home?

Jeff

[MikeM]

Congratulations!    I wish mine would do that... they're still too small though.

Angelfish can sometimes raise their own fry.  The first laying might be a "trial run", and you'll find them eaten in a day or two.  After a couple of tries, they might raise the fry on their own.  Dedicated breeders usually remove the fry to another tank with good aeration.  If you move the eggs watch them carefully, removing any white ones, which are infertile and have fungused.  Once the eggs hatch, the fry will still be stuck to the surface the eggs were attached to, and will continue to consume their yolk sac.  Once they are free-swimming, they can be fed baby brine shrimp or daphnia, possibly other fry foods.

Let your pair give it a try, a good pair of angel parents would be very cool to watch.  Both fish will care for the fry, even moving them around once they hatch, and generally looking after them and protecting them until they are free swimming.

There's lots of good Q&A's on angelfish breeding here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwangelreprofaqs.htm

Good luck.  Now you know for sure which one's the girl

[Kats]

They are sooooo cute!   

I think the female is done (I had a doubt she was a she... being the most nasty of the pair.. )  The male goes up and down where the eggs are, fertilizing them and sometime just fanning them with his side fin!

It's very interesting to see how they team up for chasing the other fish away, there is NO WAY anyone is getting close to those eggs!!!

Do you think if I feed them a bit more that they might not eat their eggs?

[dan2x38]

I know nothing about breeding angels and just learning the very basics about it period. I do know if you leave the eggs in there no matter how much they eat the eggs will be eaten too. In nature the water is vast so the eggs & fry have a better chance of survival. The parents eat the eggs & fry for protein and their own survival.

Get your 5 gal. back-up & running, remove the eggs. All ya need is a small air pump with an air stone no filter yet bare bottom, the tank that is... LOL  If you want to raise them there are a lot of angel breeders here...  If you remove the eggs to grow out the fry I can show you how to make an easy brine shrimp hatchery that costs peanuts just a plastic pop bottle & a little air line... I also have brine shrimp eggs...

No matter what you decide you guys should be proud of yourselves! All the time, care, & research you both put in has paid great dividends... fish do not breed in bad conditions nor will they be lay or fertile their eggs... you DONE good...  patients & hard work do pay-off and you are reward with your own little eco-system! 

[MikeM]

I do know if you leave the eggs in there no matter how much they eat the eggs will be eaten too.

This isn't always true for Angelfish, or many other cichlids.  Some Angels do make good parents.  I was lucky enough to see Angelbreeder's set up a couple of weeks ago.   He has beautiful collection of angelfish of many varieties, and an incredible breeding set up.  He had a pair looking after their own fry.  It was neat seeing them fanning the eggs and "protecting" them when you look in.  That said, a lot of mass-bred angelfish have lost their breeding instinct, or eat a few clutches of eggs before they get the hang of it.  Also, in a busy community, they might not be 100% successful at keeping the other fish away from the eggs.  Once the fry are free-swimming they'll be lunch for any other tank inhabitants who can fit them in their mouth.  You'll get the highest survival rate tending the eggs yourself, but you might have a skilled pair on your hands.

[BigDaddy]

I know nothing about breeding angels and just learning the very basics about it period. I do know if you leave the eggs in there no matter how much they eat the eggs will be eaten too. In nature the water is vast so the eggs & fry have a better chance of survival. The parents eat the eggs & fry for protein and their own survival.

As was mentioned above, you don't HAVE to remove the eggs.  In fact, you would be missing out on watching some very fascinating cichlid behavour by doing so.

That being said, "new" parents sometimestend to be egg eaters.  Eventually, though, they will get it right and you should get free-swimming fry.

Given the right conditions, angels will spawn every 3 weeks.  At maturity, they will also lay clutches in the hundreds; a clutch of a thousand eggs not being impossible.

The point being is... have fun with this setup.  Raise some fry for the fun of the experience.  Then, unless you want to become a full time angelfish breeder, you'll want to just let nature take its course before you wind up with hundreds of fry you have no idea what to do with. 

[Fishnut]

What an amazing discovery!  Congratulations!

The new couple might eat them and unfortunately, and there is nothing you can do to prevent that.  Besides, Angels seem to know if the batch is good or bad.  I agree in leaving the nest and parents where they are.  You will witness some amazing parental behavior...when they figure it all out! 

Not to be sadistic, but leaving the nest will also cull the numbers naturally.  When I bred angels, I had hundreds of fry from my main pair, not to mention the other pairs.  I was taking the eggs out at first and as soon as the fry are free swimming, I was obligated to raise them.  Almost all of them survived!  My 3 tanks quickly turned into a fish room of 30 tanks with different stages of angel fish fry.  I started to leave the fry with the parents and they raised them so well, that it was as if I had taken the fry out.  As soon as they started to make the next nest, out came the fry.  It seriously gets into a MASSIVE cycle.  Check my post in the introductions.  I posted a pic of one of the angel fry tanks.

Are you sure you're ready for that level of MTS?!

[Kats]

24 hours later.....  still have eggs and the parents take turn fanning them!  I dropped in some pellet food in the back where they are nesting as I noticed that they won't come out to eat.  Seems to work...  There are a few totally white eggs the rest are transparent... is that normal?

Thanks for all your suggestions.  The kids and I are having a good time watching their behavior so we'll leave them alone for now and see how it goes.  How long will it take for the fry to hatch?

If I see that the pair lays too many eggs too often, I might get a Siamese Chinese Algea eater, based on other posts I was reading, seems like they are fond of eggs (after all, they are BabbleFish's most beloved fish!  )

Are you sure you're ready for that level of MTS?!

Sorry Fishnut, a silly question:  What is MTS?  (I'm not familiar with that acronym in English... in French it means something so totally different I wouldn't even dare mentioning it on a post  )  Thanks!

[BigDaddy]

Multiple Tank Syndrome

[babblefish1960]

My most beloved fish is the mighty discus, the true king of the aquarium, however, I have always had angelfish as well, a very honourable fish indeed.  CAE's and SAE's will not only rob eggs, they well nip the long fins and snick at the slimecoat, all around bad things.

The fry will take a few days to be lovely little wigglers, then a couple more days to free swimming.

I didn't know angelfish nested, I have only ever had them put eggs on vertical surfaces usually, but hey, you never know.

MTS in this case is an acronym for "multiple tank syndrome", a very serious condition where the human living areas are sacrificed for the benefit of a large host of tanks throughout the living space instead.  Have fun with that, it is an evil pox that is very hard to be cured of indeed.

[succinctfish]

Enjoy the experience, but if they are successful, and some fry survive, you will need much more than your wee 5 gallon to rear them.  Angelfish need room to grow, it's those blasted tall fins of theirs.    So leave them be, and most likely someone in the tank will eat the babies, or start shopping for a bigger grow out tank.  I would encourage you to let the fish rear their young, even if you are planning a grow out tank, at least until the fry are free swimming.  A night light will help the parents protect the fry. 
Raising fry means planning your day around feeding, and having a couple of hundred hungry little mouths and entreating eyes staring at you, waiting for food. It's neat when they all follow you in a school, and you're the focus of their little lives, but it's a lot of work. 

[Kats]

 

Well, it won't be this time!!  I came home from work at 5h00 and there was eggs there (mostly white ones though... what does that mean?) but then, I checked at around 7h30 and they were all GONE!!!!   

Oh well, it was nice to see while it lasted...

My husband is not ready for MTS and he is my Environment Minister, so all around, it's for the best!!!  A bit disappointing but who knows, it may come around again, it should be interesting to see if they learn to be good parents!

Thanks!

[Laura]

Well, it won't be this time!!  I came home from work at 5h00 and there was eggs there (mostly white ones though... what does that mean?) but then, I checked at around 7h30 and they were all GONE!!!!   

My understanding is that white eggs indicate they are fungused and not fertilized.  It is normal for the parents to eat them under these circumstances.

A bit disappointing but who knows, it may come around again, it should be interesting to see if they learn to be good parents!

Again, not speaking from experience, but since it's the first time, they may well get the hang of it later.

[succinctfish]

Your pair did quite well for their first time.  It often takes the male a couple of tries to figure out exactly how to fertilize the eggs, which would be why most of the eggs were unfertilized (white) this time out.  It's quite funny to watch the learning curve. 

They've done it once, so they should spawn again, and again, and again....

[renadia]

24 hours later.....  still have eggs and the parents take turn fanning them!  I dropped in some pellet food in the back where they are nesting as I noticed that they won't come out to eat.  Seems to work...  There are a few totally white eggs the rest are transparent... is that normal?

Thanks for all your suggestions.  The kids and I are having a good time watching their behavior so we'll leave them alone for now and see how it goes.  How long will it take for the fry to hatch?

If I see that the pair lays too many eggs too often, I might get a Siamese Chinese Algea eater, based on other posts I was reading, seems like they are fond of eggs (after all, they are BabbleFish's most beloved fish!  )

Sorry Fishnut, a silly question:  What is MTS?  (I'm not familiar with that acronym in English... in French it means something so totally different I wouldn't even dare mentioning it on a post  )  Thanks!

ha ha ha no I don't think it means the same thing 

[dan2x38]

To quote a great man, "Working on their night moves"?

Bob Seger 

Maybe not great but his music worked for me back then... ROTFL!

[Kats]

Here they go again!  Same pair, different location!! 

Now they are laying their eggs in the filter tube!  Silly creatures!!!  They are working way harder to protect them too....  They still seem to want to take care of the eggs, fanning them and all so I'll keep my fingers crossed!!!

Wish them luck!