help!! I need some tips for breeding goldfish

[bettabreeder]

hey guys, I just wondering if anybody has had or is breeding goldfish. If so I was wondering if you could shed some wisdom to help be breed my goldfish. thx 

[KLKelly]

You have to have a male and a female.  They will produce eggs when they want to.  Sometimes a large water change will spark things.

I have a female goldfish that has never laid eggs.  My other female does so when she feels like it.  Sometimes once a week for a month  (The tank is nicknamed the LoveShack).  She just went three months without laying a single egg though.

I hope you take breeding seriously and are not just in it to make money. I am a goldfish keeper and hate to see them being sold the way they are.  Most often too many at a time to children and in a bowl or tiny tank.  I saved two fry from the tank four months ago - it is cool watching them grow up.

Best of luck.

[bettabreeder]

just to let you know im trying to breed them because i love have loved goldfish since i was born. my purpose is to try to make a crossbreed of ryukin and moor. i believe that i have a male and female because the moor is always chasing the ryukin with its head up the ryukins back fins. 

[KLKelly]

Try a big water change is the only thing I can suggest.  Possibly javamoss or a some plants.

I don't know anything else that would help.  Mine normally love the clean water and the next day there's chasing and eggs.

[bettabreeder]

thx klkelly i have some java moss in there and a whole bunch of amazon sword plants. there has been some chasing but never any eggs laid.

[bettabreeder]

so if anybody has a different opinion or method i would like to hear.

[Laura]

The only trend I've noticed was the males in hot pursuit in the spring.  I've never seen eggs though.  They do seem friskier after water changes, but they were absolutely relentless in the spring.

[Nerine]

early spring is the best time. even indoors my goldfish bred in spring, just like our outdoor koi!

I haven't ever done anything special other than they were a few years old before they produced fertile eggs.

are you 100% certain you have a male and a female?

[bettabreeder]

im actually a bit confused because the moor which chases the ruykin has the biggest belly and the ryukin is a lot slimmer than the moor but gets chased this really makes no sense to me.

[Nerine]

tips on sexing as body shape and who is chasing who (females will chase males and visa versa) is not enough:

Gill plates   male: White bumps called tubercles present
                female:   Few or no tubercles

Leading ray of pectoral fins (paired front swimming fins behind gills)   male: White bumps called tubercles present; thicker edge; more pointed fin   female: Few or no tubercles; thinner edge; more rounded fin

there are also other things as well...this is just a couple

good luck!

[bettabreeder]

thx I have read a lot about all that stuff... but i need a second more educated opions.. right now there are no tubercles present will keep everbody updated.

[Fishnut]

If you're hoping to breed goldfish, there is a couple of excelent books I would highly reccomend you read.  First is called Goldfish Breeding and Genetics (TFH publication).  The other, in order to fully understand goldfish, is called Goldfish Guide.  I actually have a second copy of Goldfish guide if you want to buy it from me.

To breed goldfish, you need more males than females, a long bare tank and some spawning material that has the consistancy of Java moss or dense foxtail or cabomba.  Some breeders get those plastic yarn mesh things and make a rug with long strands of yarn to put in the tank as a breeding media.

You will want to cool the goldfish a lot.  They naturally go through a cooling period in the winter months, then as they gradually warm, goldfish get just as frisky as the farm animals!    Their breeding is stimulated by the warming.  The females will get full with eggs and the males will chase her to the spawning material by bumping inteo her abdomen.  She releases the eggs and they release sperm.  It never works as well with only one male and one female.  The more males the merrier when it comes to goldfish.  In some circumstances, you may need to take the female out after she has been spawned  to heal because the males can be quite rough...especially the fancy types of goldfish that can't take much abuse.

Taking the spawning material out after spawning is recommended.  Goldfish will eat the eggs.  Then you can treat them like any other fish egg.  When the fry hatch, you will want there to be a lot of algae and infusoria in the tank.  I can't remember if they say you can feed baby brine shrimp to goldfish, or if you should just stick with plant protien, but then again they'll eat infusoria, so I'm sure BBS will be ok.  Watch not to feed too much because you'll quickly find a tank full of fry stinging hydra 

Try to find the Goldfish breeding and genetics book...it's fantastic!

[bettabreeder]

thx I have read a lot about that on the internet so I went to Big al's the other day and picked up 2 moors and a skinny ryukin(i think that it is a male). i have them all in one tank and they are extremly happy.

[KLKelly]

Keep an eye on your water quality.  You just increased your bioload a big amount and you will probably have a cycle blip (ammonia and nitrite).  If they are all in your 18 gallon keep an eye on the numbers so you know if you should be doing more frequent or larger water changes.  Good luck.

[Fishnut]

Woah...18 gallons?  You might want to think about upgrading to a much larger tank if you intend to breed.  How large are your goldfish?  Mine didn't show signs of breeding until they were the size of a Clementine.  Your goldfish will grow to baseball size easily, so a large tank is highly recommended.

[bettabreeder]

ya i read that im doing 3 water changes a week 25% and i got a fiter going that keeps the water clean and clear (for now) thx for the help so far.. oh fishnut the new ones are 7 cm long tail and all and the moor and ryukin that I have had since september are 9 cm long tail all all. I have a 23 inch bubble rod in the tank and they seem to like the bubbles.

[bettabreeder]

oh and also i dont have anything bigger than a 18g so i need a new tank. im thinking a 35-55g if anyone has one for cheap i would need to clear things with my parents befor though see as im only 15.

[KLKelly]

If you don't have test kits - take your water into big als for example.  They'll test for free. Water stress (regardless of whether water looks dirty or crystal clear) could cause secondary issues with the fish health also.  I sound like a broken record I know - better safe than sorry.  Live fish are better to look at than sick or dead ones.

Awesome that you are looking for a larger tank.  You could use the 18gallon for fry.  Your new tank should allow for ten gallons minimum per goldfish.  They get big and fat.  Filtration - go for 100 gallons per hour.

A few of the gang on the goldfish forum have moors that are 7" not counting their tail.

[KLKelly]

I just got a heads up on my two fry and thought the response might interest you.  I was hoping since the mother was a telescope the fry would be also... genetics doesn't work that way I guess.  He mentioned the book he got the info from.  He also let me know orange is a dominant trait in fry if one of the parents are orange.  As well as single anal fins (mom has only one but dads have double anal fins - the fry both have singles).  I don't know what you would need to produce demekin features (telescope/ryukin mix).

KLKELLY,
Looks like your two young fish are doing very well.  About telescope eyes.. you crossed a normal eye with a telescope and so all sons( F1) will be an equal mix of the two parents containing the dominant normal eye gene and the recessive telescope eye gene. Thus ALL F1 fry must have normal eyes. But if crossed (breed F1 to F1) then you can get some telescope fry at the ratio of 3:1. I attach a quote from my book "Goldfish Guide by Dr. Yoshiichi Matsui" where you can see his figure of the genetic crosses and the explaination of how the classic Medelian proportion works.

[bettabreeder]

thank you that is really informative on the genetics if i get them to breed ill let you know how the fry end up.