nitrites in ottawa city water, new tank cycling with fish

[cemantic]

One more post.

I have a 110 gal aquarium with 1 koi 6", 3 goldfish at 5", 5 goldies at 3-4".  They all came from the pond a little over a week ago.  Used bio mass in aquarium filter and on bottom fo the tank.  Started cycling with a bit of ammonia about a week before the fish transfer.

Added two small plecos.

Things were looking good but I am having a tank cycling problem right now.  I check the ammonia, ph, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate every day.  The ammonia has always been pretty much zero,  the nitrite and nitrate were registering but just but yesterday when I did it (tuesday night) the ammonia was just as low, but a huge spike in the nitrite and nitrate.  One of the plecos died and it's probably like the canary in a coal mine.  I'll see tonight if the second one is okay.  Had vacuumed and changed 40% of the water on last sunday and again last night.  Still high but not as bad this morning and changed about 20% of the water before going to work.  Levels down but still registering.  I will keep doing it until it stabilizes.

I don't like this idea but I put in some Nitrozorb made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals last night into the RENO XP3 canister but it takes a day or so to make a difference.  I guess at this point the only thing I can do is keep doing water changes.

Here is the rub though ...

I checked the city water and it seems to have a percentage of nitrite in it at the level that I am testing in the tank.  The nitrate level was zero.  Is that possible or is the test kit old and not reading properly?  If it is what can you do since that would almost make the water changes moot.

The ammonia didn't spike and the only reason I can think of is that in the pond the bacteria was there for the ammonia hence some kind of transfer to the tank but maybe with the quantity of plants and algae in the pond there was not as much natural bacteria to take care of the nitrite and nitrate though that doesn't make sense according to the nitrgen cycle as I understand it.

Any idea why the ammonia spike first?

Suggestions and opinions welcome.

[cemantic]

My own update.

What do you think about using the water from the pond to replace the aquarium water?  The pump has been kept going.  I would test it first.

Any reaon not to?

[cemantic]

my 2nd own update.

In the first post I meant to ask why the ammonia DID NOT spike first?

It is zero.

[fishycanuck]

Have a look at your test kits to see that they are fresh. There is usually an expiry date somewhere.
Plecos do not do well in a cycling tank. 

[dan2x38]

The pond water will not do much but some of the pond filter media would... that is a heavy bio-load to start a tank with even if adding NH3 to start a cycle... add Prime it detoxes NO2... if NO3 was high maybe when the NH3 spiked it was converted to NO2 before you tested hence the raise in NO3... WCs with Prime is my bet... dose Prime heavy to reduce NO2 & detox NH3 too as much as x5 is safe... salt will help with the NO2 & stress but beware pelcos can also be sensitive to salt so low dose salt... try 1 tsp/5 gal gradually introduced over 6-8 hours... Good Luck...

[KLKelly]

I'm sorry you lost a pleco   I've had that before too - when nitrite registers but not ammonia.

When a tank is cycling its best to cut back significantly on feeding. Maybe find a way to just feed the surviving pleco.

Warning about the salt - take out your nitrate absorber.  I think salt causes it to release the ammonia/nitrate it absorbed.

And if its an aquarium pharmaceuticals test kit - the date is right on the front of each bottle.  The bottom line - the last four numbers under the FL OZ line - 0708 would be July 2008 expiry.  Oops I was wrong - see my next posts 

[dan2x38]

Wealth of knownledge KLKellY nice to know about the nitrate sponge & test kit dates... KEWL

[KLKelly]

I messed up - next post  DOH!

[normc]

I just found out that my test kits expired in May 2003!  I wish I knew that before I bought the stupid things.

I don't think this is right. Mine has the same numbers and I haven't had it anywhere close to that long.

[KLKelly]

Nice Catch Norm!!! - Tests are good for three and four and some five years.  I wish my memory was better than that of a goldfish.

Here's what I asked:
The last 4 digits of the lot number on the AP nitrAte kit is the month and year that reagent was bottle right? Is there an expiration date anywhere? How long do those reagents typically last? Assuming they're shaken correctly as per test instructions, is that a function of how often the bottle is opened? Here's the thread where we're discussing it: http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2328
Thanks,
Betty

Here's the response from AP:
In response to your question, each reagent bottle has a Lot # printed on the bottle. The last four digits are the month and year of manufacture. Example: Lot # 28A0102. This is a pH reagent manufactured in January of 2002. Pond Care Wide Range pH, Ammonia, High Range pH, Nitrate, Phosphate, Copper, Calcium and GH all last for three years. Nitrite and KH will last for four years. Freshwater pH(low range) and Pond Care Salt Level will last for five years. The expiration date is not a function of how often they are used or even when they are opened for the first time, but from the date of manufacture. I would not use or trust these kits after they have expired.

[cemantic]

Thanks for the heads up with the salt and nitrozorb.  I was aware of the recharge cycle for them but forgot about that.  It is out and I did add some salt though not a full load.  Did two water changes yesterday.  loaded up on Prime but not overkill.  Levels are coming down, but ammonia is now showing up.  A bit of a seesaw effect.

Unfortunately the other Pleco didn't make it.  Wish people at BA's had listened to what I said.  They knew the exact situation the tank was in.  The Koi is looking like he lost some of his scales.  There were two that were definitely damaged when we captured him/her and put them into the aquarium.  Now the scales have dropped off.  It doesn't look infected in any way but not sure.  Is there anything I should watch for?

Wondering if the pleco got at the koi.  Pretty small and they were definitely not too healthy from the get go but maybe one did get at the koi.

[KLKelly]

I wouldn't do anything just yet.  Try and stay on top of the water and be very scrimpy with the feedings.  After your water gets happy you can start to spoil them again.  Do you have a python that you use for water changes?

I'd keep an eye on him and watch for changes in behaviour including clamped fins, flashing/rubbing quickly against objects or the floor, redness or fuzziness to the area. 

I doubt it was the pleco.  I'm sorry he didn't make it either : (

[cemantic]

Yes we have a python to do water changes.  Initially we thought of a different spot for the aquarium so bought the 50 foot hose version.  I am going to cut it down since it doesn't suck as much up as it could and I think it is pressure and the length of the hose that is causing that.

Definitely will watch Goldie who has now been renamed to Wild E. Koiyote.  Hopefully nothing serious with her/him.  Is there any sure way of determining sex of the kois and goldies?

Vigilance will seize the day.

Thank you for your thoughts all, particularly to you klkelly it has been helpful.

[KLKelly]

Here is an article on sexing goldfish... http://thegab.org/Articles/SexingGoldfish.html

Breeding stars are a dead give away.

I would have goldfish over any fish if I had to chose. I just wish the fancies weren't affected with swim blader and other health issues.  Single tails and koi seem so much hardier and issue free.

[Crumpet]

I love your koi's name -- very clever!

Regarding the dropped scales, they will eventually come back, but I find when they do, they are sometimes different than they were before-- either shiny, or kind of transparent.  Like KLKelly recommends, keep a weather eye for infection/rubbing/unhappiness.  Aquarium/kosher salt can often help speed up the healing process, but follow advice regarding nitrazorb and plecos.

To sex koi/goldies, they need to be mature.  One way is to look at the anal port area.  Females will protrude, while the boys stay "innies".  Also, if you ever see them "dance" you will know if you have a pair.  The male will put his snout under her tail, follow her around the tank, and smack into her side from time to time, and other hanky panky.  
The males will also get breeding tubercules on their gill plates -- look kind of like pimples, as KLKelly mentions

[Crumpet]

Great link, there KLKelly!  Good pictures showing the anal vents and breeding stars, much better than my weird descriptions

[cemantic]

Can't take credit for the name.  My wife came up with it when we discovered it was a koi.  Actually after looking on the web it should be "Wile E. Koiyote"  "Wile" for short.

Funny how we name the little beggers.

It is fun and very rewarding to see them.  Fingers crossed that everything gets under control soon.

Thanks again for thoughts and opinions.