More questions

[Ormarr]

I've been trying to get a list of going of what I would need to change my FW to a FOWLR setup with reef later.

I listed the equipment I think I would need and some questions with each piece of equipment.
Any feedback/advice would be appreciated.

Here is what I have so far:

- tank (have already, 75g)
   - drilled holes for sump
   - bulk heads
   - plumbing

- Stand (have already)
   - modifications for plumbing if necessary
   - leveling (foam/shim)
   - egg crate for support LV?

- lights
   - Change bulbs to 10k/actinite?
   - Sell 4x55W CF lights and get Tek lights instead?

- Protein skimmer
   - What gallon rating should I get?
   - In sump or hang on back?

- Sump
   - tank      - 40g breeder
   - plumbing
   - media
   - pump      - Mag Drive 12?
   - return pump? Separate pump I need?

- Powerheads
   - Which ones?   - Hydor Koralia 4 (1200GPH each)
   - How many?   - 2? 3?
   - placement?

- Substrate
   - How much?   - 2 inches in tank enough?
   - What kind?   - Sea Floor Reef Sand?

- Remote deep sand bed
   - Sand inside?
   - How much is needed?
   - How big should RDSB container be?
   - plumbing/bulkheads for it?

- heaters
   - get 1 or 2 more.

- Test kits
   - Which ones are critical?
   - Which ones are nice to have (later)?
   - What brand?

- Refractometer
   - Brand?

- Ro/DI unit
   - Brand?
   - Capacity?

- Additional Supplements?

- Food?

- Marine Salt
   - Brand?

- Live Rock
   - How much can I add in a virgin tank?
   - What kind?

What else am I missing?

[Funkmotor]

Okay, I'll take a run at a few of them.

Lighting: You can change over to 10,000K/Actinic if you want the look, but it doesn't much matter for FOWLR.

Skimmer: If you can fit one in your sump, that's the way to go.  Deltec makes a couple of good HOB skimmers, but they're more expensive than an equal-output in-sump one.  Rating depends on a lot of factors, but the general feeling is that you can't overdo it in a FOWLR tank.

Pump:  Mag12 should be plenty.  You're looking for no more than 10x turnover through your sump every hour, so anything that will return 750gph would do it.  It might not be enough flow so you may still need powerheads, but you don't want to overdrive your sump and you don't want it to be too noisy.  That kind of backs onto how your tank is drilled...you can't try to push too much water through the holes you have now, so let that be your guide.  You might even want to get more (or larger) holes drilled so you can push more water without making more noise.

Substrate: Get the Seaflor "Special Grade" Reef sand.  It has larger particles and won't blow around so much.  A couple inches in the tank should be fine, and set up an RDSB to get your nitrate reduction capacity.

Powerheads: Koralia's are nice, but they're big.  I have a 4 I use in my mixing barrel, and it really pushes water, but I like the Tunze nano streams better.  They're also smaller, have stronger magnets, run really quietly, and they're not much more costly.  You'll probably want two of them, whatever you get.

Test Kits: pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate are the bare minimum.  You can get away with a lot for FOWLR, though, so I don't think you'd need any more before you went reef.

Refractometer: The ones that are supplied by Aqua-Digital and sold locally through a number of outlets are good.

RO/DI: There are many brands, but the ones on eBay aren't supposed to be very good.  I got one from Patrick at Ottawa Inverts and I'm quite happy with it.  For capacity, you need enough to make your top-off water...and after that it's how patient you are for the initial fill.  I suppose 50gpd would do it nicely for you.

Supplements: Not much needed for FOWLR.  It's when you get corals and inverts that you need to watch your calcium and other parameters much more closely.

Salt: Instant Ocean.  There are a lot of these out there, but for FOWLR I don't know why you would spend more.

Live Rock: You should try to add all of your rock at once if you can do it.  The tank will cycle, and during that time you should have no fish in there.  You can use other filtration for FOWLR, bu if you want to go all LR filtration you'll want 75 to 100lbs of it.  I'd start with 50 and see what it looks like...I assume you'll want swimming room.

I hope that helps.

[Ormarr]

Okay, I'll take a run at a few of them.

Lighting: You can change over to 10,000K/Actinic if you want the look, but it doesn't much matter for FOWLR.

6700k tubes are fine with FOWLR setups?  Would algae be a cause for concern though or would adequate flow help with that?

Skimmer: If you can fit one in your sump, that's the way to go.  Deltec makes a couple of good HOB skimmers, but they're more expensive than an equal-output in-sump one.  Rating depends on a lot of factors, but the general feeling is that you can't overdo it in a FOWLR tank.

Pump:  Mag12 should be plenty.  You're looking for no more than 10x turnover through your sump every hour, so anything that will return 750gph would do it.  It might not be enough flow so you may still need powerheads, but you don't want to overdrive your sump and you don't want it to be too noisy.  That kind of backs onto how your tank is drilled...you can't try to push too much water through the holes you have now, so let that be your guide.  You might even want to get more (or larger) holes drilled so you can push more water without making more noise.

I currently don't have any holes drilled into my tank.  How many should I have to ensure good flow distribution?

Substrate: Get the Seaflor "Special Grade" Reef sand.  It has larger particles and won't blow around so much.  A couple inches in the tank should be fine, and set up an RDSB to get your nitrate reduction capacity.

Powerheads: Koralia's are nice, but they're big.  I have a 4 I use in my mixing barrel, and it really pushes water, but I like the Tunze nano streams better.  They're also smaller, have stronger magnets, run really quietly, and they're not much more costly.  You'll probably want two of them, whatever you get.

I'm guessing flow is more crucial for reef setups?  The cheapest Tunze nano stream I can find is $70+, are they available elsewhere for cheaper?  (the 6025 model in this case)  How do people feel about the Seio powerheads?

Test Kits: pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate are the bare minimum.  You can get away with a lot for FOWLR, though, so I don't think you'd need any more before you went reef.

Any particular brand I should get?  How are the Salifert?  Good? Overkill for now?

Refractometer: The ones that are supplied by Aqua-Digital and sold locally through a number of outlets are good.

RO/DI: There are many brands, but the ones on eBay aren't supposed to be very good.  I got one from Patrick at Ottawa Inverts and I'm quite happy with it.  For capacity, you need enough to make your top-off water...and after that it's how patient you are for the initial fill.  I suppose 50gpd would do it nicely for you.

Supplements: Not much needed for FOWLR.  It's when you get corals and inverts that you need to watch your calcium and other parameters much more closely.

Salt: Instant Ocean.  There are a lot of these out there, but for FOWLR I don't know why you would spend more.

Live Rock: You should try to add all of your rock at once if you can do it.  The tank will cycle, and during that time you should have no fish in there.  You can use other filtration for FOWLR, bu if you want to go all LR filtration you'll want 75 to 100lbs of it.  I'd start with 50 and see what it looks like...I assume you'll want swimming room.

I'm planning to have a protein skimmer.  Would that allow me to use less LV initally but maintain good filtration?

Has anybody tried using the DYI rock from Ottawa Inverts (as a base maybe)? 

I hope that helps.

[xenon]

6700k tubes are fine with FOWLR setups?  Would algae be a cause for concern though or would adequate flow help with that?

That would look terrible. You want a minimum of 10k. Otherwise it would look very yellow.

I currently don't have any holes drilled into my tank.  How many should I have to ensure good flow distribution?

All you need is a mag 9.5 return pump. You will probably have to throttle it back a little to get 10x turnover in your sump. That will not give you much flow so you will need powerheads to keep the detritus (fish poop) suspended so that it will go up and over the overflow box and then your skimmer can do its job in your sump.

I'm guessing flow is more crucial for reef setups?  The cheapest Tunze nano stream I can find is $70+, are they available elsewhere for cheaper?  (the 6025 model in this case)  How do people feel about the Seio powerheads?

I love my modded Tunze 6025 powerheads. They are not powerful enough in stock form but you can mod them in 5mins with a dremel and double the flow! There is a thread on ReefCentral dedicated to 6025 mods.

Any particular brand I should get?  How are the Salifert?  Good? Overkill for now?

Salifert is not longer in business. They closed their doors recently. Elos test kits are currently the best for the price.

I'm planning to have a protein skimmer.  Would that allow me to use less LV initially but maintain good filtration?

I noticed that you are calling live rock "LV". I am not quite sure what that stands for. It's best to get a minimum of 1lb per gallon. You don't want to buy more live rock later because you will get more die-off and that will start a new cycle.

Has anybody tried using the DYI rock from Ottawa Inverts (as a base maybe)? 

I have not used it but I hear its AMAZING stuff! I would not think twice about using it. We should all be using DIY rock really. Our oceans are messed up enough.

[Ormarr]

For those of you who have done this before, how much can I expect to pay in plumming, bulkheads, valves, etc. assuming:

90g tank with 2 holes already drilled (1 drain and 1 return)
Standard sump with protein skimmer (with built in return pump)
Sump will be sitting in stand under tank.

Just trying to get a ballpark figure here.  I'm putting some sort of spreadsheet together to add up potential cost.

Thanks.

[xiaan]

My setups plumbing cost me around $100-$150 that also includes 3 types of epoxy (PVC to PVC, ABS to ABS, PVC to ABS) return plumbing setup and drain.