New tank setup

[motoman]

Ok so I got an aquarium for Christmas. This will be my second time coming back to aquariums. I had one when I was like 11 for about four or five years and then moved, sold it got out....etc. So I'm back. I've got a 20 gal tank and I would like to have a community tank. I'd like to get about 10 Neon Tetras/Cardinal Tetras and some live plants. I'm wondering what plants should I start with and what PH should Tetras have? The gravel that I had first contained crushed coral and my PH and KH levels were through the roof. I asked someone at the pet store if I would have to change the rocks and they told me that after a couple of weeks the PH would come down if I did a lot of water changes. Well I did plenty of water changes and even tried PH decreaser but to no avail. After about 2.5 wks I decided to change all my rocks. Will they ever be suitable for a freshwater tank? Should I have waited longer? What fish could handle that kind of environment (PH of about 7.6)? Thanks for the advice.

Motoman

[ambushman2j]

Did you call superpet?.. I talked to someone with that problem, I beleive I suggested they had to get rid of the crushed coral as it would buffer the pH high..african cichlids like the pH high..but I wouldn't recommend africans in a 20 gallon tank

[motoman]

Yes I was talking to two people there and they had conflicting responses so I took the safe route and bought all new rock and changed it all. So I'd like to get some Neon Tetras and some plants but I'm just wondering what types the fish would like? Do they like a lot of vegetation or do they prefer it spread out? What plants are good to start with? I have the Hagen 20 gallon kit with the aqua-glo bulb. Any ideas? Oh, I read somewhere that the PH should be slightly below 7 is this right?


Motoman

[Marc]

You did the right thing by getting rid of the crushed coral as it will keep the pH up in a tank for a long time.  Some fish do like a higher pH so keep it for another tank or bring it in to an OVAS auction to sell it.

If you're not familiar with "cycling" a tank it's really important that you read this excellent article about cycling a tank:
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling.htm

pH below 7 is best for neons and cardinals.  Neons and cardinals prefer lots of vegetation.  With the low lighting setup that you have java fern is a good plant to start with.

Here is a bit more info on neons:
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/tet-neon.htm

Marc

[motoman]

Will plants help bring down PH? I'm at about 7.4 which is too high for Tetras. I tried some PH decreaser but the PH seems to come up again after a while and I'm not sure why? Will plants and the bacteria eventually lower it and stabilise my water in a couple of weeks? I don't really want to put peat in there cause my water will change colour. Anyone have any advise on how to bring my PH down or will frequent water changes take care of the problem? Thanks folks.

Motoman

[aidensmomma2000]

Almost all ph decreasers will decrease your PH but not your KH- for my Discus I use Kent brand low-range ph controller. There are a few other products avail at Aquarium services. Your fish will get hugely stressed with the ph going up and down all the time- make sure you get a buffer that does both. I tried getting a product like this at super pet in Kanata and they didnt carry anything truly suitable- go to Aquarium services  :wink:

[Julie]

I keep my Neons and Discus at PH 7.5 without any problems.
Neons do not like swings in PH.   It is important to age your water for 24 hours out of the tap.
IMO saying Fish need a certain PH is a sales pitch for these expensive buffers.

[aidensmomma2000]

Well, youre certainly entitled to to your opinion, but there is gobs of info about specific fish and their ph likings. I dont think its....educated...to say that all fish are ok with the same ph. They may *tolerate* a high/low ph, but they also may tolerate other water quality issues too.

[Pisidan]

With my neons I dont age my water for 24 hours and I have had all my neons for over a year and havent losted one yet!! So I think it reallys depends on the fish. My friends PH was 7.5 and his fish were literally getting bleached..his red tailed shark and a few guppies so like I siad depends on the fish i think just My 2 cents!

[aidensmomma2000]

I never age water, and with my community tank I keep the ph around 7 (which isnt hard). The discus though are *much* happier with 6.5, and my angels wont spawn unless the ph is lower then 7, but they might just be spoiled  :wink:

[motoman]

Ok, thanks for the info folks! I'll let you know how I make out with it. I'm going to get some plants tonight and then I'm going to stabilize the tank. Maybe by the week-end I may try a couple of hardy fish in there if things go really well.


Motoman

[Julie]

The pH from my tap is 7.8 because it is from a well and the water is under pressure.  Often well water contains large amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) which makes the water more acidic with a lower PH.
After aging the PH rises to over 8.0.   Aerating/Agiting the water will produce the same effect.

[motoman]

Ok so I changed out about 60 -70% of my water for RO water and my PH is now steady at 7.4 for two days. I'm going to leave it until maybe Sunday and see if it's the same. I"ve also added peat plates in the bottom for the plants so I'm hoping that will help to maintain my PH level close to 7.0 or where it is. Think I'm running a risk of a PH swing with the peat being in the bottom? MY GH is 1 and my KH is at about 90 instead of 220 like it used to be. If all goes well until Sunday I may start thinking about some fish.

[Julie]

At  KH 5.0 (to convert divide 90 parts per million (ppm) by 17.9= this gives you German Degrees) you should be able to maintain a stable PH.  Peat will adjust your parameters gradually;however your water is presently quite soft so test regularly.  If your KH drops to 3, you will have very little PH buffering capacity.
I also have hard well water   , so I bypass the softener, let it sit a day or 2 and then mix it 50/50 with distilled.
Good luck - Zebra Danios are excellent cycling fish.

p.s. the bottle of PH down didn't work for me either

[BermudaBorn]

Hey there Motoman.  Wood in a tank also helps keep the PH down.  Try that out.  Mesquite is a good one.  

Some more advice from the Rocking Chair!!!

Cheers!!!

Jeffrey....

[motoman]

Well my PH stabilized at 7.4  so I went ahead and got six zebra danios last night to start cycling my tank. They seem very happy swimming around and checking out the plants. It should go well considering my tank has been running for about three weeks now with plants in it. I also heard that you could add a bit of food to the water to begin fishless cycling so I did that last week starting on Tuesday. I did my nitrate and ammonia readings and they were very very low so that was encouraging. I'm thinking of adding a DIY CO2 generator to bring the PH down a bit more if things go well in the next two weeks. Thought I'd see how these guys do and how where the water settles once the fish have been in there for a while. I'm thinking I'll get about 8-10 neons or cardinal tetras and maybe 2-4 cory's. Will they all get alone with each other?

[Julie]

When your nitrites (n02-) are at zero, your tank is fully cycled.
Ammonia is converted to nitrite, then to nitrate.

[motoman]

Would it have fully cycled already? I've only had the live plants in there for about 1.5 wks.

[dpatte]

i figure a tank has a healthy nitrogen cycle when it can consume 2 - 3 PPM of added ammonia each day, yet leave no ammonia or nitrite each next morning.

It is then ready to consume 2-3 ppm of ammonia produced by the fish each day.

[Julie]

What are your readings?  It can take approx. 4-6 weeks to cycle.
I doubt it is cycled.  The danios will produce ammonia to speed things up.