Cichlids Advice

[Abedz]

Hey ..
Looking for advice regarding cichlids.

am currently setting up a 110 gallon tank for cichlids... planning to have yellow-lab, red zebra cichlid & Dmasoni (electric-blue)...

How much does a tank this size take (in terms of fish) ?? ..

[beowulf]

If wel filtered, you can stuff a lot of africans in a 110g.  The other important thing is good rockwork from them to hide, I have 35 fish easy in a 90g without any problems and they even breed.

[FishPassion]

I had kept cichlids for many years and my last tank was a 110 with about 350 to 400 pounds of rock. I found the granite rock not only very important as hiding places but also made a beautiful aquascene for the tank. In as far as to how many cichlids in that size of tank it was hard toeep count as they constantly were breeding in the many nooks and crannies of the rock but when I emptied the tank I must have had close to 50 adults Im guessing.Most likely the more experienced cichlid keepers could tell you how many as I only kept them for around four years but had read that "most' tanks should be overstocked to reduce aggression but also "must" be over filtrated to accomodate this.

[synodontis]

I agree with FishPassion and Beowulf.  There are 40+ cichlids in my 125 gal tank with no apparent problems.  The tank is overfiltered (filter capicity for 256 gallons) with weekly water changes of about 30 to 40%.

Be sure to check out the posts under dying demasoni - you will need at least 15 to disperse the aggression.

[Demasonian]

I'll echo everyone else's sentiments. I had a 75 gallon with 20+ Demasoni, 4 yellow labs, 8 red zebras and 3 Acei = 35 mbuna, all of whom bred on a regular basis. Tank was overfiltered and I did my water changes religiously.

One point to note with a 110, assuming its a four-footer, it can hold approximately the same number of similar sized mbuna as a 75 or 90. Remember that for mbuna, footprint is almost just as important. A 110 high has just about the exact same footprint as a 90 or a 75 and mbuna don't use the height of a tank for territory, only the floor space (Acei are an exception, they'll cruise the upper reaches).

If it were me, I'd look at 4 species, and if you're sticking to Demasoni and labs (dwarf mbuna) a maximum of ~40 fish, with appropriate filtration and lots of rocks -- 20 Demasoni, 10 labs, 5-6 Zebras and 5-6 of another species (another mbuna or a group of Synodontis Multipunctatus or Petricola).

If you only want the three species, then 20 Demasoni, 12 labs and 8-10 zebras (make sure you only have one or two male zebras, though).

[Abedz]

Thanks for the info guys ...

the tank is actually a 6 foot. i have around 80lb of granite rocks in there .....

filter wise ... i have 2 fluvals 205,  1 hang-on tetra whisper 60gallons.

Am thinking of adding 15 yellow-lab, 15 electric blue, 10 red zebra,

i'll probably neeed some more rocks !! ...
regarding the electric blue ... is it true they dont neeed any rocks or hiding pplaces ??

[Demasonian]

Thanks for the info guys ...

the tank is actually a 6 foot. i have around 80lb of granite rocks in there .....

filter wise ... i have 2 fluvals 205,  1 hang-on tetra whisper 60gallons.

Am thinking of adding 15 yellow-lab, 15 electric blue, 10 red zebra,

i'll probably neeed some more rocks !! ...
regarding the electric blue ... is it true they dont neeed any rocks or hiding pplaces ??

In that case, there's a lot you can do with a 6-ft tank! Nice setup, by the way. Not a criticism, but have you considered sand as a substrate?

By electric blue, do you mean S. Fryeri? (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/s_fryeri.php) I don't have any experience with Haps, unfortunately, so not much advice there. They are a beautiful fish, though, and big. If that's what you're going for, at 7" plus -- I'd maybe think of a group of 8-10. Perhaps others here would be better suited to answer that question though.

[Abedz]

ohh no ... i meant the demasoni.. i thought they were called electric blue.
See, told you am new to cichlids.

I was refering to the demasoni .... is it true they dont neeed any hiding places ?... and that they should recieve a wide area for swimming ? thts why i left some space at the top.

Thank you, The reason am not using sand is because (1. never had sand before) and because I like playing with the tank, i like moving things around... and i dont want the sand swimming all over the place when i do so....

BUT, i might consider it once i get good with cichlids.

please tell me what u think of the rocks setup, is this okay or shud i addmoe ?

[Demasonian]

By all means, stick to your own comfort zone and also your own aesthetics. It's really a matter of preference. Mbuna won't be negatively impacted by gravel, but they do like playing with sand.

As for the Demasoni, my mistake, I hadn't heard the Demasoni referred to by that name before.

My experience and research has been that Demasoni require more rocks than the average mbuna...1) to provide territory to males; 2) hiding places for subdominants and females; 3) to break the line of sight during chases and keep one dominant male from seeing his rival; and 4) to provide an area for spawning. Demasoni are cave dwellers. and will stick to the rocks, rather than the open water. The labs and zebras will occupy more of the open water than the Demasoni.

With that in mind, I'd recommend adding more rocks, maybe twice as much as you have, so that there are a great number of caves to choose from. This is what my tank looked like before I tore it down:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=11843&group=owner

[Abedz]

By all means, stick to your own comfort zone and also your own aesthetics. It's really a matter of preference. Mbuna won't be negatively impacted by gravel, but they do like playing with sand.

As for the Demasoni, my mistake, I hadn't heard the Demasoni referred to by that name before.

My experience and research has been that Demasoni require more rocks than the average mbuna...1) to provide territory to males; 2) hiding places for subdominants and females; 3) to break the line of sight during chases and keep one dominant male from seeing his rival; and 4) to provide an area for spawning. Demasoni are cave dwellers. and will stick to the rocks, rather than the open water. The labs and zebras will occupy more of the open water than the Demasoni.

With that in mind, I'd recommend adding more rocks, maybe twice as much as you have, so that there are a great number of caves to choose from. This is what my tank looked like before I tore it down:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?tank=11843&group=owner

well experience to me is much more important than researching ... i'll add some more as soon as i get more granite rocks (my dad is going crazy becuz of the tank's weight, its in the basement tho =D).

Your tank looks amazing ... exactly the mix of cichlids i wanna have .... yellow, blue, orange, and white.

I'll work on the rocks, and lighting.

Demasonian, thanks alot for aiding me in this.

[Demasonian]

No problem.  I had lots of help from this board and others when I started out with Cichlids.

About the weight issue, remember that each rock displaces an equal volume of water, therefore adding 100lbs of rock to a tank does not increase it's weight by 100lbs. A gallon of water weighs over eight pounds. A fully loaded 75 gallon tank will come in at around 700-800lbs depending on amount of sand and type/amount of rock...The tank can handle the weight. The question is, can the floor? In a basement, your safe on that front. What you have to make sure, though, is that the tank is level. Otherwise, the weight of the water could cause a seam to blow over time, which is not a good thing.

[Rob Labonte]

Switch that gravel out for sand b4 putting fish in there. it'll be much easier without fish in there.

my first tank (55g) had gravel, the fish seemed bored and just kinda hung out. as soon as I switched to sand they were really happy, swimming around, playing in it.

cichlids love sand. they pick it up in thier mouthes and spit it back out. they make little mountains and use this tecnique to dig under stuff...

my fish also wouldnt breed until they had sand.

sand is thier natural habitat.