Suffering fishies :-(

[aminah83]

Hi,

I am still a bit new to the cichlid scene and am wondering if someone can help me out.

My testing levels are as follows and I am sure there is somethinh seriously wrong.

PH            6.2 ish
Nitrate      0.1 ish
Ammonia   2.4 ish

What would you say the approx. desired levels are for fish like yellow labs, jack dempsey's, etc.

Any help would be Suuuuuper! Thank you in advance and I hope posting this to here is ok. :-S

Aminah

[Severum]

Hey,

You have posted in the wrong forum. This needs to go in the freshwater discussion. I am sure a moderator will move it shortly.

You will get some great advice in there.

All the best.

[aminah83]

Oops. I had a feeling but wasn't sure and am in a panick. Found the link and posted there. Thank you for the guidance! (I'm still a 'fry') ;-)

[Fish Doctor]

That's true, you are in the wrong forum.
Look like you have african and american together.

Malawi Lake have a high alkaline content, having a pH value of 7.0 to 9.0 in their waters.

Ideal pH value  8.00.

Nitrates are alway's in the water. you need to keep them under 20ppm.
Ammonia should be at zero along with nitrites.

Best not to overstocked tank which also results in higher nitrate
production.

Add extra HOB or Canister filter, and cleaning gravel.

[dan2x38]

This is a new tank? What fish are in there? What size? This tank is cycling and you need to get some used media from a filter off someones tank to help your fish at this point. What filter do you have?

[remiry95]

First of all, you need a seperate tank for africans, they cannot be mixed with your south americans and other freshwater fish. When you keep adding fish to your tank, and you have too many, the levels go crazy and your tank will start cycling again. This process is very dangerous for your fish. The ideal levels for africans are : Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, nitrate = a little bit (It's the waste in your aquarium) and a PH above 7.8, ideally 8.2. For the PH, you can buy a special substrate called aragonite or crushed coral, or you can add buffer to your tank. As of right now, I recommend moving all your fish into a QT tank or doing at 20-25% water change, make sure you siphon the substrate. You can also buy special ammonia remover inserts for your filter, depending on the type you have. Make sure you feed your fish only once a day, as much as they can eat in 2-3 minutes, you dont want to feed them too much, overfeeding is a common mistake people make. It is also good to have special cihlid pellets.flakes for your cichlids and tropical flakes for your other guys. If you need aditional advice, you can try the internet or go to Big Al's, their staff is educated and will definately give you some advice. Hope all goes well!

One more thing, make sure you have no driftwood in your tank, it is known to lower the PH level in your tank.

[Rob Labonte]

" you need a seperate tank for africans, they cannot be mixed with your south americans "

huh? says who?

I (and so do many other people I know) keep south american cichlids with malawi and tanganika cichlids.

Ive got all 3 in my tank and they are fine.

as long as you dont try to put tropical fish in there, your fine.

also, aminah. 8ph is the ideal. but myself and other people I know, dont even check thier water chemistry. I havent checked my water in over 1 year and my fish are fine. if you are constantly trying to keep the ph at 8, you will have fish die from ph spikes.

and one of the reasons your ph is so low is you arent using the right substrate. you have gravel in your tank which is not what you should have. but like i said ph shouldnt really matter. cichlids are very adaptable to different water conditions. especially convicts. they will live in anything, almost. if youre fish are dying or sick, i dont think its because of low ph. its either ph spikes or something else like high ammonia or nitrates..

[dan2x38]

Guys the fish are sick because the tank is cycling see the readings. Research cycling an aqquarium it is the most imporant thing to learn for successful fish keeping.

[Demasonian]

Agree with Dan. The biggest problem here is an uncycled aquarium. Regardless of what fish are in there, they are suffering from ammonia and likely nitrite poisoning. Lots of water changes, 25%/day, dose with Prime as per bottle instructions if you start seeing nitrite (which you will if you have ammonia readings and no nitrates). The best thing to do would be to get some seeded filter material to add to your tank as soon as possible.

pH stability is important, but overall level isn't - with some exceptions.  However, most New World cichlids prefer their water on the softer side while Africans like the hard stuff. This is one of the reasons why it's not ideal to keep the two together. Not that it's impossible, just not ideal. Obviously, with a pH of 6.2, your Africans are likely going to be stressed and that can lead to other complications...

Your main concern here, though, is getting that tank cycled. Then decide on an appropriate fish list for your tank or make adjustments to the chemistry to accommodate your current inhabitants.

[Rob Labonte]

Id like to add,

Id try to not use liquid ammonia and nitrate removers, I find they are only a quick fix and your levels spike back up soon after and you will loose fish.

when i first started my tanks I would try to control the ph and ammonia and nitrate levels. I would use a ph buffer that only lasted so long then my ph would be down again. frequent changes in water chemistry will kill your fish.

ever since i stopped testing my water and doing nothing other than my water changes, my fish have been fine.

all I would do is like everyone said, frequent water changes (with water conditioner, of course). but Id also put a new carbon and ammonia chip bags in your filter

[dan2x38]

Prime detoxes ammonia but still leaves it available to the bio-filter to convert to nitrate. It detoxes nitrate but it is still available to be converted to NO3 by the bio-filter. Prime is a water conditioner not an ammonia remover. There is no better product on the market I have heard of especially when setting up a tank.

Prime is not a quick fix by any means it is maintenance product for water conditioning by removing chloramine. Yes adjusting pH with chems cause swings. Yes products like Amon-Lock cause issues but not so with Prime. Using filter products to absorb ammonia stores it to be leached back when it has no absorption capabilities left. If you need to use ammonia chips on an established tank there are issues. There should be Zero ammonia (NH3) & Zero nitrite (NO2) in a healthy established (tank) bio-filter.

[markw]

Using filter products to absorb ammonia stores it to be leached back when it has no absorption capabilities left. 

Dan is absolutely correct. Carbon, zeolite or any absorbant that is designed to rid ammonia will do just that, but if left to go past its shelf life will poison the tank in a heartbeat. The issue with carbon is that you can't predict when it will saturate and when it does its too late.
Simply put, the tank is not cycled and will not be habitable until it is!

[Rob Labonte]

sorry, i meant to mention prime. i actually do use prime. its nice because you need so little.

amolock was what i was using that was giving me problems.

[remiry95]

huh? says who?

I (and so do many other people I know) keep south american cichlids with malawi and tanganika cichlids.

Ive got all 3 in my tank and they are fine.

as long as you dont try to put tropical fish in there, your fine.

Well, Me and many friends who work at Big als know that african cichlids come from africa and their waters have a naturally high PH, south americans do not have a high PH. For best health, you should try to keep the PH up. But I agree, adding this and that can get bad. I am aware that many people keep different kinds of cichlids together, and that is good that it works out for them.