DIY stand for my new 225 gal tank

[fischkopp]

Hi Alex, the tank is coming along nicely!

Plants when first transplanted suffer root shock. This can take weeks to over come.

Some plants like swords, crypts, lilies ... basically root feeders take some time to settle in. Stem plants should kick in right away.

Your fertilization seems to be quite generous to me too. And that the hornwort flourishs shows that there are no deficiencies here. I would lower the Epsom salt though (<1tsp, maybe 0.5), most plants prefer it softer. What you should ad is another source of calcium, I use calcium sulfate (gypsum), others use baking soda. The suggested dosing would be 1 Mg : 3 Ca.

Like Dan, I do also think that the CO2 is not at the level you expect it to be. The simple formula with the KH-pH-CO2 relationship does only apply for a rather small range of conditions. If I apply it to my water I would it tells me that I would have >120ppm CO2 (KH=3, pH=5.8 ) - well, it's not, it's barely somewhere between 20-30. There are two reliable methods that can be used to check the CO2 concentration: measure the pH change after 24h in a glass of water - it will be >1 if there is enough CO2 dissolved. The second one is the drop checker method, ideally with calibrated indicator solution.

I am usually adding otto's to my tanks, the will remove the diatoms in no time. Highly recommended, as any diatom growth on new plants really slow down the growth.

[charlie]

I have to agree that the method you are using to check your CO2 levels does have some issues & can be completly misleading, i`m also inclined to believe the bulk of your algae & growth issues are tied into CO2 levels as the primary reason with perhaps some secondary ones .
I noticed you said you have now completely sealed the sump, that should really help with your co2 out gassing that is so common with sump systems, another thing worth trying is cutting back some of the light intensity, since the higher the light intensity the more CO2 is required & everything else related , 640 watts of light on a tank with that much surface  area is a lot of light.
Regards

[pminister]

sweet another update. tanks looks amazing, though i can't offer much help on this topic as i am a freshman when it comes to planted tanks. learning though which is key 

by the way which fishes are these.........they look neat.



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[dan2x38]

Sorry Alex I forgot to add it is looking awesome excellent job. I am envious great toy... or set-up I mean... 

[alexv]

Thanks guys for all your suggestions... I have these thoughts:

- Regarding measuring CO2 levels - I'm running a pH controller which is a bit more accurate at measuring pH than a solution. I also think to combine the two approaches. I'm going to put a vessel with 4 degrees KH solution and put the pH controller electrode into it and cover everything with a cap to seal from air. This should act just as a drop checker but using pH controller to check the pH level. No need to replace the solution every few weeks (except for recalibrating the monitor every few months)... The only thing I need to figure out is to select the vessel which is small enough in volume to put the electrode in (so that it is more responsive to CO2 level changes)... Other than that it should work beautifully.

- pminister: These are Red-Line Torpedo barb (Puntius Denisonii). I have 4 of them and love them

- fischkopp: I do have some oto cats (I think 7 of them). But they can't keep up, I guess. About dosing Ca - that's a good idea. I actually have Ca(NO3)2 poweder. I can reshuffle the quantities of KNO3 and K2SO4 to replace some of KNO3 for Ca(NO3)2 (to balance nitrates) and then change K2SO4 to re-introduce the lost K+.

My Echinodorus Uruguayensis started to grow nicely. And dan2x38, the bulb of the Tiger Lotus that you gave me now has about 7 beautiful leaves on it Hairgrass started to spread a bit but some blades are still covered with diatoms. Blyxa Japonica is my main concern since it has barely any green color to it.... It still grows though...

I'm not sure that having 640W of light is all that much. Maybe now since the plants are not fully grown, but you need to consider that the tank is 30" high... A lot of light is lost in the water depth (like 60% per 50 cm or something - if I remember correctly the quote from Aquarium Plants by Christel Kasselmann (I loved that book by the way )).

Anyway, I will do some water testing tonight for NO3, Fe, PO4 and see where I stand on concentration.

You also need to keep in mind my constant water change regime... Unlike conventional method of doing one big change at the end of the week where the plants have a chance to consume pretty much everything you put in for the whole week and then remove the excess in one shot, in my case some part of ferts are drained off constantly, so the actual amount of nutrients available to plants will be somewhat smaller...

I'll keep you updated on the progress.

[alexv]

- pminister: These are Red-Line Torpedo barb (Puntius Denisonii). I have 4 of them and love them

A bit off-topic but I just read here (http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1955) that my poor Puntius Denisonii is banned for export now... I'll have to hold on to mine with extra strength

[pminister]

A bit off-topic but I just read here (http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1955) that my poor Puntius Denisonii is banned for export now... I'll have to hold on to mine with extra strength

speaking of these fishes. where did u acquire them from recently? or u had them from your previous tank. also when they breed........i don't mind buying some 

[alexv]

speaking of these fishes. where did u acquire them from recently? or u had them from your previous tank. also when they breed........i don't mind buying some 

I bought them a few years ago (as juveniles) from SuperPet (before they became Petsmart which I hate now - but that's a different topic). They were quite pricey (like $15 a piece or something). They lived in my 55 gallon tank until now. I'm sure they appreciate the additional swimming room of the bigger tank.

And I don't think they breed in captivity (at least without special efforts like hormones etc), but I may be wrong about it... I know that mine haven't attempted breeding (yet)...

But my Corydoras Sterbai and Hyphessobrycon Rosaceus have spawned a few times in the new tank already. I guess they are liking it there too

[fischkopp]

- Regarding measuring CO2 levels - I'm running a pH controller which is a bit more accurate at measuring pH than a solution. I also think to combine the two approaches. I'm going to put a vessel with 4 degrees KH solution and put the pH controller electrode into it and cover everything with a cap to seal from air. This should act just as a drop checker but using pH controller to check the pH level. No need to replace the solution every few weeks (except for recalibrating the monitor every few months)... The only thing I need to figure out is to select the vessel which is small enough in volume to put the electrode in (so that it is more responsive to CO2 level changes)... Other than that it should work beautifully.

I believe that your pH controller measures the pH just fine. However, the problem is that the pH/KH relation itself is not exact to measure the CO2 in our aquarium. The formula assumes, that all acids lowering the pH originate from CO2 only. Unfortunately, there are other sources of acids present, humic acid for example. These will lower the pH in addition to CO2, so that you will calculate a much higher CO2 concentration than actually present. If you say, that your CO2 is at 20ppm based on pH and KH, then you know now that it is actually much lower. That why I brought up the calculation for my tank: the formula tells me 130 ppm, reality is around 30 ppm though.

I digged up some links because I am not be so good in explaining these things because I miss a bit of the details in between. Happy reading

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/equipment/77587-ph-controller-v-s-constant-co2.html
http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/2818-drop-checkers-co2-indicators-why-how.html

http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200611/msg00121.html

Quote from the last website:

CO2 ppm measurement methods have been increasingly subjected to
critical assessment in the Aquarium plant tank hobby. During
this phase, many hobbyists have noted wide ranging difference in
their measured CO2 ppm concentrations vs the actual tank
observations from both plants and fish. Some report ranges of
upwards of 200ppm of CO2 based on the pH/KH/CO2 cart. But fish
health and plant growth was normal, when they lower the CO2
assumed concentration to 60-120ppm, they had BBA outbreaks. The
hobbyistys had pH monitors that where calibrated. KH test have
some issues potentially though(see below). Such readings
underscore the issues resolving the CO2 concentration
determination with any accuracy that we can have some trust and
faith in being correct.

The chart *assumes* that all the influences are due to KH and
CO2 concentrations.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the chart itself.
What is problematic for aquarist is the application in our tanks
under a wide range of conditions.

Non bicarbonate alkalinity, test kits that measure total
alkalinity rather than specifically bicarbonate alkalinty,
issues with pH: non CO2 acids depressing pH lower giving false
positive readings, erroring to skew the pH/KH/CO2 chart in
showing there is a lot more CO2 than is really there.

[alexv]

I believe that your pH controller measures the pH just fine. However, the problem is that the pH/KH relation itself is not exact to measure the CO2 in our aquarium. The formula assumes, that all acids lowering the pH originate from CO2 only. Unfortunately, there are other sources of acids present, humic acid for example.

Oh, I understand the concept. That's why I said that I will create my own "drop checker" using the controller. I will have the electrode in the standard 4° KH solution (distilled water and baking soda) which will be covered by a jar and everything put into the sump. The established CO2 balance in the air inside the jar will bring the pH of the standard solution and I will know that there is no other sources of acidity in that solution but CO2...

Same principle as the drop checker but instead of pH test fluid I will use a pH controller which will require no weekly maintenance (except for occasional recallibration).

That was what I tried to say

[fischkopp]

Gotcha, seems like my eyes were a bit tired last night.    Sounds like an interesting little (and tricky) project actually. Hope you post some pics, once you are done.

[alexv]

By the way, I bought a standard drop checker from Big Al's today to keep CO2 in check... It went nice and green after putting it in... I used just a tap water which is around 4° KH according to my test kit. I will eventually prepare a standard solution myself but for now this seems to be a good starting point.

I also tried the other way of checking CO2 levels. The pH in the tank is 6.7. I removed some water and let it sit overnight in a jar. I checked pH the next morning and it was 7.6. I suppose that is close enough to the target.

I did check other levels and it turned out that phosphates are quite high (about 5 ppm). I will cut down on KH2PO4. Nitrates are about 10 ppm, so I could add some more. I will use Ca(NO3)2 to supplement both additional NO3 and Ca as suggested by fischkopp.

Fe is around 1 ppm, so that's good. By the way, the plant growth seems to be improving and both Blyxa japonica and the moss on the wood seems to turn greener...

BTW, the Anubias nana produced a second flower

[fischkopp]

By the way, I bought a standard drop checker from Big Al's today to keep CO2 in check... It went nice and green after putting it in... I used just a tap water which is around 4° KH according to my test kit. I will eventually prepare a standard solution myself but for now this seems to be a good starting point.

I did a comparison of tap water vs. calibrated 4dKH solution using two drop checkers in the same tank at the same time. The tap water indicator showed a higher concentration, a quite yellowish green while the calibrated one was more on the dark green side. Hope this helps.

[alexv]

Just a little update... The tank is going pretty well. The plants are growing quite quickly. The tiger lotus has leaves of about 7-8 inches in diameter.

I still have some algae problems... Cannot nail down the correct dosage of ferts I presume. Working on it...

[dan2x38]

Nice coming together! The Lotus prune the leaves before they get to the top. It takes awhile but you can train the plant. If they come to the top they grow the size of a dinner plate and block out the light.