Help for new Goldfish owner!

[Nemo888]

I didn't know that keeping an aquarium was so complicated.
I have a 30 gallon tank with two Orandas. Been going around a month now. The bacteria seem to be getting established.

I change the water 20 to 25% every Friday. I have two rubbermaid containers and use the vacuum to empty one and then refill with the other. I use an airstone overnight and then heat it to the right temperature if it is still too cold. I also add some dechlorinator. Then on Fridays I treat the fish to some skinned green peas and shrimp that I feed them by hand.

I have a number of question though:
How many more fish can my tank support without shortening the lifespan of the fish living in it?
Do you need to use dechlorinator if you use the airstone in the bucket overnight?
Will I always have to change the water this often?
Will live plants make the tank any harder to take care of?
Can I get by without testing the PH and such on the tank?

And mostly what advice can you give me for keeping healthy fish?

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[dan2x38]

Do you need to use dechlorinator if you use the airstone in the bucket overnight?

If living in Ottawa the City uses chloramine in the water. It does not evaporate so you need to use a water conditioner that handles that. A very good product is Prime. Prime is also excellent during setting up a new tank since it detoxes harmful toxins created in your tank from your fish. If you've not already learned it then research on the nitrogen cycle for new aquariums - very important for successful fish keeping.

Will I always have to change the water this often?

Yes you will always have to do water changes weekly is best. This is how you keep your fish healthy. By understanding the nitrogen cycle the final by-product is nitrate (NO3) it has to be removed so it doesn't build-up.

Will live plants make the tank any harder to take care of?

Unfortunately Goldfish love plants they are herbivores. If they don't eat it then they uproot them digging around.

Can I get by without testing the PH and such on the tank?

Testing the tank water conditions in the beginning lets you know where things are in the nitrogen cycle. The pH in the beginning can he important during cycling. If you stay on top of the water changes and use water conditioner than you won't have to test.

And mostly what advice can you give me for keeping healthy fish?

Goldfish are messy they make a lot of waste. They are also cool water fish so not a lot you can keep with them. Orandas are not has fast a swimer as other fish so might be out competed for food. They also harass them with their faster swimming and antics. Stay on top of water changes, do not over feed or over populate and the tank will be healthy. OH more fish are harmed with over feeding then under feeding especially Goldfish.

There are some real Goldie pros on here they will have a lot more advice I'm sure. Enjoy!!!

[beowulf]

You might want to consider some white cloud mountain minnows which are great on colder water and are no agressive so should get along great with your goldies.

[KLKelly]

Visit the goldfish and aquarium board www.thegab.org and join the forum.  I live on it.  I have five fancy goldfish tanks and this site is the best on the web by far for expert goldfish advice.  Many take their fish to aquatic vets.

Goldfish have specific needs.  Your tank is stocked perfectly for goldfish. Don't add any more fish.  I have orandas, fantails, pearlscales and lionheads.  Orandas are high bioload fancies that can get to 7" without counting their tail.  Orange ones are my favourite.

Goldfish need a ph above 7.0.  The GAB forum can help you with perfecting your water.  Fancy goldfish also need a heater.  76-78 is perfect.  A lot of people think all goldfish are coldwater.  Only single tail common type goldfish are coldwater.

Here are three articles to start.  Please join and spend a lot of time reading.

Goldfish care sheet: http://thegab.org/Articles/GoldfishBasics.html
Water quality: http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQuality.html
Cycling: http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQualityCycling.html

[Fishnut]

I have a number of question though:
How many more fish can my tank support without shortening the lifespan of the fish living in it?
Do you need to use dechlorinator if you use the airstone in the bucket overnight?
Will I always have to change the water this often?
Will live plants make the tank any harder to take care of?
Can I get by without testing the PH and such on the tank?

And mostly what advice can you give me for keeping healthy fish?

How many fish?

That tank is a perfect size for the 2 fish you have.  I'll attach a picture to show you how big these fish can get.  In the pic, that's my hand on the glass and one of the orandas is next to the glass.  I took it with my blackberry, so the quality isn't as good.  Don't explore adding any more fish to it at all because the tank is full and goldfish have very different dietary needs than other cold water fish.

Use of Dechlorinater?

Yes, you absolutely need dechlorinator if you're in the city.  The city uses chloramines in the water which doesn't leave the water over night with bubbling no matter how long you leave it.  Prime is only one of many types of water conditioners out there.  It is the most expensive per bottle, but it's highly concentrated so it ends up to be cheaper.  I personally don't like it and don't see any other benefit to it so if you're not already using a particular brand of dechlorinator, do your research and choose from that.  There was a debate in a thread about spring run off a week or 2 ago, where I posted a lot of information about the different products on the market.  Try to stay away from unproven theories and go with the facts.

Water change frequency?

Goldfish are one of the biggest waste producers for their body size in the fish world.  It's not just coming from their bums, but their gills as well as they breathe.  Water changes once per week should be your minimum.  The more water changes you do, the happier and healthier the goldfish will be.  I used to do water changes on my goldies every 2 or 3 days.  It wasn't vaccuming the gravel that often, but I would drain some of the water and fill it up.  If this schedule isn't what you had in mind, the only other way to keep things clean is to have a filter that is rated for a tank 3x the size of the one you have.  So if the tank is a 30 gallon, you're looking at a filter for a 90 gallon.  A canister filter would be best because the level of bio media available is fantastic!  I had one question about your water change methods.  Why do you need a heater to warm up the water?  If you're leaving the water sitting for a period of time, the water should be the same temp as the tank...unless the tank has a heater in it.

Plants with Goldfish?

I don't think so.  First of all, many plants like to be in tropical waters.  Second, Goldfish are vegetarians, so most plats will be looked at as food.

Testing Frequency?

Yes, you can go a very long time without testing the PH.  It's not a really crucial part of fish keeping unless you're keeping a species of fish that requires a different PH than the water that comes from the tap...like discus or wild caught angel fish.  What you need to do is test for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate as often as you can UNTIL the tank is cycled.  Once you have readings of 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite and a small reading of Nitrate, the tank is cycled.  After that, just test the Nitrate.  If there are ever any problems though (cloudy water, sick fish, smelly water) you still need to have the ammonia, Nitrite and PH test kits handy to diagnose a problem.

If you stick to that advice, goldfish keeping will be quite rewarding!  The only extra bit of advice I would give is :

1. Maintain a low level of aquarium salt in the water. 1 tablespoon of aquarium salt per gallon of water.  It seems to help the goldfish stay healthier.  Just remember that salt doesn't evaporate so keep track of what you're taking out and what you're adding.

2. There are MANY types of goldfish food on the market.  the cheaper the price, the cheaper the quality.  I find the fancy goldfish don't do well on cheap food, so do your research and choose the food that best fits what you feel their needs are.  I used to feed a sinking pellet to stop my fancies from eating air along with their food.  A bubble in their system can be complicated.

3. Goldfish are always going to act hungry.  They are programmed with the instinct to eat like horses when food is available because who knows when they'll find it again.  Aquarium fish don't have this challenge so skipping a day or 2 in your feeding schedule will do more good than harm.  Do your best not to give into that cute little begging face.

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[KLKelly]

Just to open debate about salt - I'm not completely on board with this.  There is a lot of talk about salt resistant strains coming out including salt resistant costia.  I would reserve salt just for treatment of illness or to detoxify nitrites.

I'll read my book on Fancy Goldfish by Dr. Erik Johnson to see what he says about PH.  I haven't gotten that book out in ages.  Now that I have my microscope it might have some refresher info too.  I would get your ph tested by a local LFS - test right out of the tap and tap water after 24 hours.  My mom's ph Her ph goes from 9.0 to 7.6 after 24 hours and she has a kh of 3 which isn't well buffered.  Her white goldfish was pink - we knew something was wrong.  When I tested her ph it was low sixes.  She keeps more on top of her ph now.  If you have a higher kh - your weekly 50% water changes should keep your ph stable.  If you use water conditioner you should be able to do water changes with temperature matched water right from the tap.

Great pics of the orandas and showing their size!!!!! People have no idea when they get them that they can get that big or why they shouldn't stock their tank with lots of small guys.  They do grow especially when they are well fed.

[KLKelly]

When I look ph up in the fancy goldfish book. Page 20.

It says: The PH of fish and human blood and coincidentally the ideal ph for goldfish is 7.4.  The ph can be measured with a simple test kit.  It goes on to list a lot of things that affect PH.  Scientific stuff and other things like plants and drift wood etc.  It ends with "Combined, these biological processes tend to have the net effect on a fish tank of causing the PH to move downward into the acidic range.  Fortunately there are molecular checks and balances against this effect.  More techie stuff....

KH... A high total alkalinity of 100ppm and above will keep your ph stable for a long period of time.  Low total alkalinity of 50 ppm or under will need to be remedied or you may have to cope with a sagging ph or sudden drop of ph.

It goes on to describe a ph crash and why it happens and symptoms of a goldfish in low PH.  Main point is to make sure your kh allows for a stable ph.

I forgot all about this book.  Its got a great section on using a microscope too.  I have more reading to do

[Laura]

Congrats on starting out with such a great sized tank for them!  In addition to the super advice you've already received, I have seen fantastically planted goldie tanks, but it's hard to do. 

I have a couple in a 33 gal with 2 med sized weather loaches and a bn pleco.  I would say I'm overstocked - as a result I keep 3 filters running on the tank.  Keeping with just your two is a better idea - the only other thing you could consider is a bn pleco.

Cories and white clouds are two of the common suggestions for tankmates.  While the goldies are small, they're fine, but eventually the goldies will eat, or try to eat the other fish (I'm speaking from experience here )

I have a problem with BBA in my tank, which makes keeping plants harder, but there are some sp that will do fine and not get eaten by your fish.  Java fern and onion plants are two good choices.

I've got a pic of the goldie tank in my gallery - at the time the fish were 3 years old, now they are closer to 5 and bigger.  Although your fish look tiny now, just give them time 

In the future, I think you'll want additional filtration as they grow.