What I am doing wrong now?

[DARKPHREAK]

After having BGA for the first month now I have hair algae and green water to the point where I want to rip all the plants out and have a non planted tank. The plants are growing well but look horrible. I do not add ferts because like I've said in the past I really dont know what to add. Could someone explain to me what causes hair algae/green water and point me in the right direction as to what I should be adding to the water(ferts) and what I should be testing for. Below is the tank specs if that will help in comming up with a solution.

Thanks
James

Water Params
-------------------
Temp: 82
pH: 6.8
Ammonia (ppm): 0
NitrIte (ppm): 0
NitrAte (ppm): 5-10
KH (degrees): 5
CO2: 23.773ppm

Lighting (Wattage & type of bulbs):
-------------------
4 * 40 watt
2 PowerGlo
2 GE Plant

Fish In Tank:
-------------------
6 Angelfish
1 Dwarf Gourami (Colisa lalia)
4 Honey Gourami (Colisa chuna)
1 Pakistani Loach(Botia lohachata)
1 CAE
2 Amano Shrimp
2 Red claw crabs

Plants In Tank:
-------------------
3 Valisneria Torta
3 Valisneria Sageteria
2 Echinodorus Bleheri
1 Pennywort (Hydrocotyle Leucocephala)
1 Barter's Anubias (Anubias Barteri V.Barteri)
1 Wendt's Crypt (Cryptocoryne Wendtii)
6 Dwarf Sagittaria
1 Cryptocoryne Balansae (C.Crispatula V.Balansea)

[dpatte]

what are your phosphate levels?

[DARKPHREAK]

I havent a clue, dont have a test kit for that but will get one soon. What does high/low levels of phosphate do?

[PDP]

get an iguana man haha j/k

[DARKPHREAK]

Unlikely Pete, BTW wish you were still at SP, hate walking around looking for help for an hour.

[dpatte]

phosphates are a major factor in the growth of standard algaes. The can be removed with water changes.

BTW, did your BGA disappear. If it did, what was your trick?

[guest123]

One thing I was not aware when I set up my tank is that the carbon in the filter can add Phosphate to the aquarium.  Root tabs can also add Phosphate.  I had my phosphate levels off the chart and I switched my carbon to Seachem Purigen last night before my 10% water change.  I can't wait to see if my phosphate levels will go down now.

[artw]

Carbon adds phosphate?  could you please cite any references or websites from where you got this information?

[DARKPHREAK]

Root tabs, hrmmmm I have some of those maybe 6 or so. BGA, it seems increased amount of C02(40ppm for a few days) and a CAE took it all away.

[guest123]

Artw,

Here is a link where I got my info.  I don't know if it is true or not.

http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1554&highlight=phosphate

If the link does not work go to www.plantgeek.net, forum, CO2 and Water Chemistry and check for a post on March 2 with the title Need help...phosphate levels off the scale or something like that.

Here is a cut and paste :
"active carbon is only 'active' for a few days...after that point, if you have really cheap carbon, it could start leeching phosphates into the water. Frankly there's NO reason to run carbon in a planted tank...so I'd start by removing it from the equation completely. "

[Marc]

Here's an interesting article about activated carbon by James R. Layton chemist for Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, wrote this article for the magazine Marine Fish Monthly:
Activated Carbon in the Marine Tank

It's worth reading the whole article but here are the more relevant parts:

Some carbons are activated or washed with phosphoric acid, zinc chloride, or potassium hydroxide. These chemically treated activated carbons are unsuitable for use in the aquarium. These products could leach phosphate (an algae promoter), heavy metals, or alter pH.

Nine activated carbon products were tested for phosphate contamination. Five of these contained phosphate, including so called "marine" carbons.

Also very informative is a Q&A about  activated carbon with Leo Morin, chemist for Seachem:
Phosphate leaching of activated carbon

That question is based on the common misconception that phosphate in carbon arises from acid washing with phosphoric acid. I know of no major carbon today that is acid-washed in phosphoric acid. Acid-washed carbons are preferable because they contain less, not more, leachables such as phosphate. Acid washing is usually done with hydrochloric or sulfuric acids, not phosphoric acid. The phosphate in carbon arises from the organic or "once living" source of all carbons. All such materials will be rich in phosphate because all living matter is rich in phosphate. DNA, RNA, energy transfer molecules, and a host of other important biological compounds are phosphates.

What is important is identifying a good carbon? Brand or generic doesn't really matter.

I prefer to use little and change it frequently rather than more and changing it infrequently. I recommend around 100 mL for each 20-40 gallons and changing it at least once a month or sooner.

[dpatte]

i haven't used carbon in my tanks since Nixon was popular

(this isnt exactly true - my marineland inserts have carbon, but one has to assume they are safe)

I would think that regular water changes make carbons basicly redundant

[Marc]

Like David I don't use carbon either.  I also think that regular water changes make the carbon redundant.

[Poustic]

How old is your setup?   I went through all of that myself, and a few months later it's all gone.  Here is some advice that I received from various sources at the time which helped me a lot.  Just pick out the parts that apply to you.

Going through all these types of algae when your tank is less than 6 months old is very normal, so patience is the key.  You can put some Phos-Zorb in your filter to remove the phosphate from your water within a couple days, put some fast-growing plants such as hygrophilia to help out-compete the algae, and add some hornwort that release natural algicides.  Ensure you have appropriate lighting, and prevent direct sunlight from reaching the tank... Avoid pH buffers...  Use CO2 and a small amount of ferts to give the plants an extra chance to outgrow the algae.  Start by covering your tank in total darkness for a few days to kill a lot of the algae (especially blue-green algae a.k.a. cyanobacteria) and give your plants a head start.  Get some algae-eaters, such as Florida Flag Fish (they do a terrific job for hair algae), and a few otocinclus, ramshorn snail, etc.  And don't leave the Phos-Zorb more than a few weeks, because plants actually need some phosphate to grow.

Today I have to use plenty of ferts, root tabs, add phosphorus, etc. to keep my plants happy, and they seem to be using up all the phosphate.  Hope this helps...  

[DARKPHREAK]

The tank has only been setup for about 3 months, going through some changes in substrate, from gravel to Flourite and DIY C02. So it hasnt really been going that long. Like you said Poustic I guess after awhile everything should settle out. But I will get a phosphate test kit just to make sure on that front.

Thanks everyone for all the input.

James

[artw]

the reason why I asked for the citation was so frequently on internet message boards you see facts and figures flying around with no proof.

Who is Nixon?

[Marc]

Art,

It was a valid question.  I had never heard of it either and doubted it was true.  Research proved me wrong.

Note that despite it's possible problems both chemists felt the use of  activated carbon in a tank was safe.