discussion? maybe...maybe not

[bulldozer911]

so i already know, you buy used at your own discretion. there are no lifeguards. that's no problem, i understand totally. it's used, there's no warranty. i buy used all the time sometimes it's great, sometimes not but i rarely get suckered. what bothers me is that this site is protecting the guy who did it by locking my post, and not allowing me to say anything about it or have a discussion (even without mentioning names) . it bothers me that today someone else may be ripped off by the same guy (who still has ads up)  i haven't posted his name anywhere. i don't believe i'm flaming anyone.

i know that even on used ottawa, if there is a scam artist, people will make an ad warning others. i don't think it happens enough that people are being unjustly accused all the time. i can't see it happening. this site has been extremely helpful to me over the years and this is my first time being really screwed. i know i lost, and have to just suck it up. i'm over it, but i wanted to prevent anyone else from going through the same thing

unfortunately that is not allowed =(

chris

[FocusFin]

Your thread was locked because it has no point. On the one hand you say you want to warn people about this person but on the other you say you won't name names. Unless you are planning to hint at who it is there is no purpose to posting about it.

I don't want to seem harsh but the rules are in place for a specific reason. Can you imagine what would happen if everyone who had a gripe about a member or a vendor was allowed to flame them whenever they pleased, the site would become a mess.

The only recourse you have is to pass the word along to others you deal with and hope that it makes the rounds.

By the way, you were allowed to say something about it, your original post was left up and not deleted.

[Zoe]

Is there any sense in reporting the particulars to the exec committee?  I would hate to think that someone would get away with ripping many people off because no one knows that others have been suckered.

[holachicka]

I dont know Zoe, it was tried in the past and we were told that OVAS does not get involved and even went so far as to say it must have been a misunderstanding yet, it was pretty clear cut. It is a real shame but it seems that the only thing you can do is try to tell friends and fellow members you have interactions with and hope for the best. Like bulldozer, the member who riped us off is still occasionally selling things on the classifieds...the item we put on a deposit actually...it may very well be the same person, I dont know but it seems that there needs to be some preventative measure put into place without making it seem like it is being too constricted...I dont know...it is just upsetting...

[mseguin]

In the past, any time a member of the executive has gotten involved in cases like this it has turned out exactly as you'd expect, a giant game of he said/she said. The fact is, we are not law enforcement, and we do not have the time or resources to look into everytime someone thinks they have gotten a bad deal online. We do usually keep tabs on people that we have had multiple complaints about, but we can't easily look into individual cases.

[Zoe]

holachicka - would you mind telling me, via PM, who ripped you off? Happened to me a while ago, just wondering if it's the same person.

Matt - I understand that you can't investigate each and every case, but you're saying that if a dozen reliable people come forward and say "he/she ripped me off", the most the exec would do is "keep tabs"?  Sorry, but what is the point of keeping tabs if no action is going to be taken?

[mseguin]

No I'm saying we don't have specific plans for what does happen. I can't remember getting more than 2 complaints by any one person, with regards to transactions.

[bulldozer911]

i understand, and i didn't want the site or anyone affiliated with it to try to do anything on my behalf. i was just caught in a situation where i had very little i could do to help myself, and thought warning about him might have been my only option only i couldn't do it. so if anyone asks me in a pm, i'll be happy to tell them who it was. i'm already over the loss of money, i just didn't like that he's getting away with it. i already feel better just writing about it =)

[FocusFin]

We do usually keep tabs on people that we have had multiple complaints about

I think that this is an excellent alternative. If a person has multiple complaints from different sources their membership should be yanked. Good for the members, good for OVAS.

i understand, and i didn't want the site or anyone affiliated with it to try to do anything on my behalf. i was just caught in a situation where i had very little i could do to help myself, and thought warning about him might have been my only option only i couldn't do it. so if anyone asks me in a pm, i'll be happy to tell them who it was. i'm already over the loss of money, i just didn't like that he's getting away with it. i already feel better just writing about it =)

I don't blame you for being upset, it's frustrating and I know what it's like to be taken advantage of. Let the executive know who it was so that if other members have been through the same thing they can do something about it. Good Luck.

[JetJumper]

Perhaps this can be installed?

http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1129

[2075turner]

other sites that I belong to have itrader ratings.....good or bad.  That would give an indication of the persons dealings and might stop those from listing items that they don't want to get negative feedback on.  It also works the other way around for buyer...hagglers and people that "say they will show up" and don't it all can be reported to let the seller what to expect. 

[TLe041]

I thought making the classifieds members-only was supposed to fix this issue. That was one of the arguments that the proponents kept on insisting was going to happen.

[garnpet]

Perhaps this can be installed?

http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1129

This was actually installed several years ago.  It was abused so much that it had to be removed.  Basically people just went in a gave people they disliked a bad karma vote everytime they posted.

[FocusFin]

I thought making the classifieds members-only was supposed to fix this issue. That was one of the arguments that the proponents kept on insisting was going to happen.

Quotes from the President:

I see the deluge of classifieds ads making the site less welcoming to people looking for information.  Our #1 priority is a club and a forum to share knowledge and camarderie of our hobby. Making sure people get to sell stuff is not as important. In the end, if the hobby and sharing it with others is what's important to them, they will be back to the forum and club. If they just want to sell, there are other sites, or they can become a member and reach out directly to hobbyists. But in the end, my number 1 priority is making this site a place to hang out and share about the hobby, not buying and selling

and

I can't remember getting more than 2 complaints by any one person, with regards to transactions.

and

The final change is that posting in the Classifieds will only be available to OVAS club members. Forum users who are not club members will be able to view the Classifieds as well as pm members who have listings, but will not be able to post their own listings. As soon as one becomes a club member, that benefit (as well as many others) will be opened to them. Again, the goal is not to push away people, but rather to reinforce that this site is an extension of a community of hobbyists.


I don't recall the issue of rogue sellers ever being on the list of reasons for the changes to the classifieds. 

[Fishnut]

No matter what industry you're in and no matter what you're dealing with...private sellers can be lying sneaky bastards and get away with it!  Buyer beware!!

IMO, OVAS should not get involved because OVAS is not a sales environment...it's a fish club.  I also don't think that there should be some kind of rating system here for people.  For example, I sell something once in a blue moon in the classifieds, but I wouldn't put it past a select few people to give me a bad rating just because I've ticked them off with my bluntness.

My advice to people is to do your research BEFORE you agree to anything.  Don't take the seller's word on something...they have no reason to tell you the truth.  If it plugs in, test it before you leave. If it's a tank, insist that they have it full when you arrive...or fill it before you walk out with it.  NEVER put a deposit on something unless you get a receipt in writing with both your signature and the seller's signature on it.  Even something scribbled in pen on a lined piece of paper is enough to take to court. 

From my experience, people who get ripped off are either people who have not done their due diligence or people who have trusted a stranger's word.  That's why we have contracts for everything that means anything...a person's word is no longer trustworthy.

[robt18]

Go to meetings, meet the membersm and only buy from people you know, or those who are friends of members you know, etc. Someone who knows your name and face probably aren't going to rip you off.

[Zoe]

I guess my point now is that with the classifieds a members only section, that means that anyone ripping someone off is an OVAS MEMBER. Not just a faceless dude selling stuff.  I doubt OVAS will ever have to act on a complaint but I am glad to know there are plans in place in case something happens.

Also, I'm not referring to anyone in particular, but seriously? OVAS couldn't handle a "karma" or ratings system? Too bad... I LOVE ratings systems!

[holachicka]

Go to meetings, meet the membersm and only buy from people you know, or those who are friends of members you know, etc. Someone who knows your name and face probably aren't going to rip you off.

But they have...and still sell...I know in theory, your suggestion makes sense BUT, you never really know someone until you deal with them where money is involved... sad, but true!

Also, I'm not referring to anyone in particular, but seriously? OVAS couldn't handle a "karma" or ratings system? Too bad... I LOVE ratings systems!

I hear ya - I would love to think that no one would abuse said rating system but as someone already mentioned, some people may not be able to resist the urge to pick on someone who has rubbed them the wrong way, so to speak

I suppose my suggestion at this point is: deal with those you trust, even if it does cost a little more, at least you will not run the chance of getting ripped off.

[dan2x38]

This is a mod that can be installed:

http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=346

You can not only rate the sale/puchase but leave a comment too like on E-Bay. It leaves a trail because the user's name is left behind and comments can be reported too. I am sure OVAS could handle it now with less posts in the classifieds? In the past it was open to all comers now it is Members Only so fewer posts. besides just because something didn't work before doesn't mean we shouldn't try again. Rome wasn't built in a day. If members abuse it include in the rules as warnings and bannings for misuse plain and simple same as any part or OVAS on line presence.

I was sure somewhere someone said something about improvements to classifies because it would be member only so more accounability.

Zoe/HolaChicka and me exchanged PMs on there dealings with shaddy customers I will not longer deal with them. When others report it and I learn of shaddy dealings I will not deal with them either. In fact I learn of others who know of what happen and they still deal with those person/s I won't deal with them either.