Plant Problems....

[androo303]

Hi,

I have a couple of plants that are looking not sooo hot. I have a 65w coralife on for 8 hrs a day with EcoComplete substrate. I do not have any CO2.

Take a look at the photos and let me know what you think the problem is.

Image ....42/50 has holes in the leaves
Image ....28 leaves are not bright green, they are brownish

[TLe041]

What is your current fertilization regime?

Both the holes and chlorosis (yellowing) leaves indicate a potassium deficiency.

[androo303]

No regime whatsoever. I've been reading up on fertilizing  but didnt know the first thing...

Any pointers?

[TLe041]

With a strong light fixture and pressurized CO2, you'll definitely need fertilizer.

Because both my tanks are sub-10 gallons, I use Pfertz for the convenience factor (http://pfertz.com/). However, you should look into the Estimative Index (EI) dosing regime (http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/62-The-Estimative-Index-of-Dosing-or-No-Need-for-Test-Kits). I'm sure someone else on here can provide more help with it than I can.

[androo303]

Pfertz eh? Where did you purchase? they seem quite easy??? Simple pump style bottle.

I'd like to start off with some small dosing to test the water...

[magnosis]

the holes and chlorosis (yellowing) leaves indicate a potassium deficiency.

I second that.

These are great resources for identifying plant deficiencies:
- OVAS's Plant deficiency reference
- Chuck's Planted Aquarium Pages
- Plant Nutrient Deficiency Map

Also keep in mind E.I. is targetted at the "average" heavily planted, CO2-injected tank.  You can use it, but it's strongly advised to start with much less and gradually adjust it for your plants' needs.

You can also check out PMDD (Poor Man's Dosing Drops), another popular dosing method.

Good luck. Don't hesitate to ask all the questions you may have  Pictures always help, too (a picture of your full tank wouldn't hurt)

[androo303]

Good luck. Don't hesitate to ask all the questions you may have  Pictures always help, too (a picture of your full tank wouldn't hurt)

Oh don't you worry. Just when i think i've figured out this hobby... I notice my dwarf gouramis in the corner dead. Bah. Not a happy camper yesterday! One casualty is really solid considering i've been running this since around xmas!

I purchased some Flourish Potassium from Big Al's last weekend and dosed as per the recommendation (3 x a week). So hopefully we'll see something good come of it! I did put my CO2 setup in about 48 hrs ago, so hopefully this will fix it up a bit too.

This all being said, I have just seen some brown brush algea on my drift wood. Is that good, bad, or indifferent? Does it indicate my system is running good, poor, or so so? I've been reading up on it and it is said that to get rid of it is to get rid of the piece (or bleach it). Any thoughts?

As requested, I've attached two photos of my tank. Cheers.

[magnosis]

Nice tank !

This is definitely not *heavily* planted and as such, you should be careful not to overdose your ferts.  I would suggest starting with 1/4 or 1/8 of the recommended dosage (whether you use E.I or PMDD) for a tank this size, see what happens, and gradually adjust.

Also try to keep your N, P and K in balance. Of course if you notice a deficiency for one of those, then increase the dosage of that one.  I'm just a little worried of what may happen if you only dose Potash but neither Nitrates or Phosphorous, and you inject CO2.  But then again, your tank will show the signs, you just need to pay attention

Don't forget to perform weekly or bi-weekly water changes if you go by EI or PMDD. Otherwise your tank will gradually accumulate any excess ferts and you'll end up with algae blooms.

That's just my 2 cents, and I'm far from being an expert so don't take me to the word

[androo303]

Thanks for your word. Definitely more then i know. Is there test kits for N, P, and K??

I was doing a capful of the Potassium and it seems like it may have killed my Dwarf Gouramis, atleast htat is what i think did it as it was the only thing i really changed! Y'arg.

Hmmm. PMDD, i just did a quick search on google and it looks simple. What do you do?

[magnosis]

Is there test kits for N, P, and K??

Test kits for Nitrites, Nitrates, Ammonia, pH, KH, Phosphate & Iron (and others for saltwater tanks) can be had for cheap , most our sponsors have them in stock.

Their accuracy is, hum... questionable ?  I use them when I cycle a tank, or when I started mixing dry powder ferts just to double check my measures, but otherwise I don't tests things on a regular basis.  When you use those, just make sure they aren't expired, and test twice or until you get semi-consistent readings.   There are Lamotte tests that are more expensive and more accurate (also debatable) and electronic probes that are awesome but pricey.

I was doing a capful of the Potassium and it seems like it may have killed my Dwarf Gouramis, atleast htat is what i think did it as it was the only thing i really changed! Y'arg.

I'm pretty sure this concentration would definitely not overdose your fish to death...  How big is your tank ?  Even if its a 10g, you'd be dosing 6.6ppm of K, that's nowhere near dangerous levels.   Did you notice any symptoms in the hours/days before death ?  Were they eating & breathing normally ?

When things go bad, post all you have in the 911 forum.  Don't listen to me though cuz I'm a bad doctor and lose fish all the time  O.O

Hmmm. PMDD, i just did a quick search on google and it looks simple. What do you do?

I use E.I. on my 59g; it's med/high light with pressurized CO2. I started with 1/2 doses and increased as I added more plants.  I change 50-60% of the water every 10 days.

I have another 10g planted, with lower lights and no CO2; I don't fertilize that one at all, the plants are nourished by the fish waste alone. This one gets a 50% water change once a month.

The 20g tank I started a month ago is in dry start mode, and will also get high lights + co2.  Maybe for this one I'll try PMDD instead of EI, not sure yet.  E.I seems to work for me so far, I don't have much reason to change other than curiosity ;-)

[androo303]

Woah. Thanks for all the info ! Really appreciate it.

I am beginning to wondering if i really need CO2 in my ~26G tank. I'd like to keep it low-tech but the plants don't look so health (as my previous post showed).

I wonder if it is because it had no CO2 or whether i was not dosing. That being said, I do have lots of fish and shrimp in it so there should be enough waste for them to eat up.

Fun times not knowing what hte issue is!

[exv152]

You have too much lighting and not enough ferts and CO2.  Sixty five watts for a 26 gal tank is not considered a low tech set-up, that's about 2.5 watts/gallon.  That's somewhere in the middle.  If you want a low tech tank reduce the lighting to about 40 w, but you still need to add an all-purpose fertilizer like flourish. Essentially, the bright light is creating a necessity for more micro and macro nutrients - which they're not getting. Nice tank btw.

[androo303]

Thanks a ton!

Can i drop the amt of hours it is on or do i have to change bulbs all together. I'd like to save money as much as possible.

[exv152]

Thanks a ton!

Can i drop the amt of hours it is on or do i have to change bulbs all together. I'd like to save money as much as possible.

If you want to save money I'm not sure buying new pc bulbs will be the answer. But you can try going with 6 hours of light/day, but I wouldn't go any less than that.

[androo303]

Hmm. Is there a location that is open after 6pm (weekdays) where i can get some macro/micro nutrients? That i can try mixing together?

I tried using Flourish Excel but it started to make some plants turn brown faster. Is there a reason for that (ie the plants dont like it? too much? too little?).

[exv152]

My first suggestion is to support the local businesses like B&B, or you can also order online from like "Canadian aquatics", they provide NKP & micro nutrients.  I doubt excel is turning your plants brown, but if you have vals or cryps it may melt them, otherwise excel is pretty harmless.

[androo303]

Where is B&B?? Are they pretty solid for info and rooks like myself?

[exv152]

Tell them you were referred by ovas...

B & B Hydroponic Gardens
1780 Woodward Dr,
Ottawa, ON K2C 0P7   
613-723-5047

[magnosis]

I'm not suggesting against dry ferts, but I would strongly suggest you do extensive research on this before you jump in (you may have done so already, good!).

Preparing your own fert solutions, dosing daily, performing weekly water changes, trimming regularly... it all demands a lot of investment (time and $) in your tank. If you are not ready to commit to that kind of maintenance, a low-tech setup is much easier (and cheaper) to maintain.

I say that because when I started using dry ferts I didn't fully realize this would be much more demanding on me.  In the end I've very happy with the decision, because I like spending time on my tank, trimming, aquascaping, trading plants and stuff like that.  Be prepared to spend a few hours on your tank every week, and this is just for taking care of the plants.

Beside, you will find on these forums a few experienced members you've got rid of their planted tanks because it was demanding too much of their time    Still, there is more people who start planted tanks than those who quit ahahaha.

Also a hi-tech setup is, in my opinion, easier to deal with if it's *heavily planted*.  Well not exactly, BUT most of the documentation you'll find out there is written in the context of heavily planted tanks.  I started with a low-medium planted tank and had to do a lot of adjustments, re-calculate all my dosage, this and that.  Since then I've added a lot more plants, and now it's easier because I can simply follow E.I. as-is with only a few minor tweaks.

Something to keep in mind ;-)  Whatever the path you chose, it's almost certain your approach will change as your tank evolves and as you become more comfortable with your setup.

Good luck !  

ps: I highly recommend you also join PlantedTank.net.... as long as you don't stop posting on OVAS ahaha

[androo303]

Thanks for the info! AWESOMELY APPRECIATED!

So if i want to turn my tank into a low-tech for the time being to gain the necessary experience, should i tone down my light?? Its currently at 65w for about 6.5 hrs a day.

I've started dosing with Flourish Potassium and Excel, but unsure what steps i should do next because I don't want to spend toooo much time and money just yet as I dont want to get discouraged from this really fun hobby.