PH fluctuations - can it kill off my Amno Shrimp?

[George2]

Hi,

   I have been having trouble keeping Amano Shrimp in my 17 gallon tank. They seem to die at a very high rate and I am not sure what the problem is. I do weekly water changes of about 20% and have the following water parameters:

Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
PH: 6.5 - 7.0+
Temperature: 24C - 25C

  I recently observed the PH fluctuate from 6.5 to 7.0. Is this fluctuation enough to kill amano shrimp? I am injecting CO2, which turns on for 8 hours a day while the light is on. If I leave my CO2 on 24 hours/day, would that eliminate my PH fluctuations and create a more stable environment? If so, is that much CO2 harmful to shrimp or fish?


Thanks,
George

[exv152]

A fluctuation of 7 to 6.5 pH in itself is not problematic, but co2 at higher concentrations can be harmful to your shrimp. So I wouldn't recommend leaving the co2 on 24/7. What is the KH in your tank? Also, what are your nitrate and phosphate levels, and have you added any fish or plants recently?

[George2]

A fluctuation of 7 to 6.5 pH in itself is not problematic, but co2 at higher concentrations can be harmful to your shrimp. So I wouldn't recommend leaving the co2 on 24/7. What is the KH in your tank? Also, what are your nitrate and phosphate levels, and have you added any fish or plants recently?

KH=2
Nitrate=0
posphate=0 (or close to 0)

It is a new tank setup that has been running for about 3-4 months. I am using the ADA Amazonia subtrate and I have a number of plants in there, right from the beginning. I do not have any fish in it, but I do have one nerite snail and 4 Amano shrimp. Because there is not too much algae, I have been feeding the shrimp some shrimp food as well. (I only added the shrimp and snails after I noticed algae starting to build up.) I have arleady had about 6 shrimp die in the last month.

[exv152]

Excellent choice for plant substrate! ADA Amazonia releases lots of ammonia in the first few weeks. Heavy water changes are a good idea. Also, your nitrates being zero is a concern because it indicates your tank is possibly not cycled, which means any food you're adding is going to create an ammonia spike and shrimp aren't able to tolerate NH3/NH4 well. It's doubltful your pH swings are killing your shrimp. The pH in my tanks swing from 7-6 pH overnight with co2 injection, and the shrimp and fish are fine. Add some hardy fish (2-3) for the next two weeks and the beneficial bacteria will have something to eat and begin colonizing, and the more fish you add over time, the more the bacteria will grow.

[Mike L]

 When you do your nitrate tests are you shaking the bottles sufficiently. Each part of the API ones need to be vigorously shaken each for about a minute before use and then sit for 5 if I remember. correctly. If you are getting 0 I agree with exv152 there may be a cycle issue. Regards Mike

[Shawn84]

How are did you acclimate the shrimp? PH swing of .5 is not a shrimp killer.

[George2]

Excellent choice for plant substrate! ADA Amazonia releases lots of ammonia in the first few weeks. Heavy water changes are a good idea. Also, your nitrates being zero is a concern because it indicates your tank is possibly not cycled, which means any food you're adding is going to create an ammonia spike and shrimp aren't able to tolerate NH3/NH4 well. It's doubltful your pH swings are killing your shrimp. The pH in my tanks swing from 7-6 pH overnight with co2 injection, and the shrimp and fish are fine. Add some hardy fish (2-3) for the next two weeks and the beneficial bacteria will have something to eat and begin colonizing, and the more fish you add over time, the more the bacteria will grow.

Yeah, I noticed a huge spike in Ammonia with the ADA Amazonia subtrate. It was off the scale and lasted for about 6 weeks! After that, I observed a spike in the Nitrite level. Once then went away, I assumed it was cycled. The whole process lasted for over two months. The reason I suggested Ph is because that was the only thing I could think of that seemed to vary.  I'm glad to know that is not the problem. I'll put in a couple ember tetras from my other tank and see how they do. (I've always been hesitant about using fish as guinea pigs to help cycle the water.)

[George2]

When you do your nitrate tests are you shaking the bottles sufficiently. Each part of the API ones need to be vigorously shaken each for about a minute before use and then sit for 5 if I remember. correctly. If you are getting 0 I agree with exv152 there may be a cycle issue. Regards Mike

I have the API test kit and it made sure I shook it for the correct amount of time. Thanks for the advice.  I'll do the test again, just to make sure I did it right. THanks!

[George2]

How are did you acclimate the shrimp? PH swing of .5 is not a shrimp killer.

I put the bag with the shrimp in my tank and left it there for 20 minutes. After that, I opened the bag, emptied it into my net, and then put the shrimp into my aquarium.  (I used the net because I am trying to avoid introducing any unwanted pests into my tank.)

It seems like the shrimp don't die right away. It's always about a week later. This is very frustrating. I think I will take more frequent water readings to see if anything else fluctuates.

[Stussi613]

I put the bag with the shrimp in my tank and left it there for 20 minutes. After that, I opened the bag, emptied it into my net, and then put the shrimp into my aquarium.

So you don't introduce any of your water into the bag with the shrimp before releasing them?  If not, I'd say you are definitely stressing them and potentially making them more susceptible to stress.   Shrimp are very sensitive to water changes.  I have always drip acclimated shrimp, even in fresh water, because of this.   In my saltwater set up I drip a acclimate shrimp for over an hour and add 2x the volume of water in the container before releasing them.

[George2]

So you don't introduce any of your water into the bag with the shrimp before releasing them?  If not, I'd say you are definitely stressing them and potentially making them more susceptible to stress.   Shrimp are very sensitive to water changes.  I have always drip acclimated shrimp, even in fresh water, because of this.   In my saltwater set up I drip a acclimate shrimp for over an hour and add 2x the volume of water in the container before releasing them.

Oh, ok, I did not realize I had to do that. How much water should I add into the bag and how long should I wait? What do you mean by "drip acclimated"?  Thanks!

[charlie]

These should help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2R5NI-iLk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl1uxBp8XjE
Regards

[George2]

These should help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2R5NI-iLk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl1uxBp8XjE
Regards

Thanks for the videos! I had never heard of the drip method before. One thing I am wondering about is the temperature difference between the water in the bucket vs. the tank. Wouldn't that stress the shrimp out as well? I guess I could use the drip method into the bag, and then float the bag in the tank for a bit.

[lucius]

I use one of these specimen containers when introducing fish and shrimp.  I slowly pour the entire bag into the container and then float the container inside the tank for 30 minutes or so.  During that half hour, I take about a tsp of water from the main tank into the container every five to 10 minutes.

http://www.bigalspets.ca/break-resistant-specimen-container-large.html

I also have a net that's just small enough to span the entire width of the container for easy netting of shrimp/fish.

[George2]

I use one of these specimen containers when introducing fish and shrimp.  I slowly pour the entire bag into the container and then float the container inside the tank for 30 minutes or so.  During that half hour, I take about a tsp of water from the main tank into the container every five to 10 minutes.

http://www.bigalspets.ca/break-resistant-specimen-container-large.html

I also have a net that's just small enough to span the entire width of the container for easy netting of shrimp/fish.

That's a good idea as well! thanks!

[Stussi613]

Thanks for the videos! I had never heard of the drip method before. One thing I am wondering about is the temperature difference between the water in the bucket vs. the tank. Wouldn't that stress the shrimp out as well? I guess I could use the drip method into the bag, and then float the bag in the tank for a bit.

I actually drip all my saltwater stuff in a small container next the tank, the water won't change temperature too quickly as you add water from the main tank you'll end up with a consistent temperature over time.  I drop cleaner and fire shrimp for an hour that way and I haven't lost one yet (5 shrimp total in my tank at least 1.5" long).

[wolfiewill]

If any of your plants were purchased online, or from a supplier who bought them from abroad, they may contain pesticide residues. These will kill shrimp (do several large water large water changes, 80%, start carbon filtration, and wait 30 days before adding any more shrimp). Also, you need sufficient hiding places and calcium for them to molt. They will often try to run away if you have enough calcium but no hiding places (you will find them on the floor), and will just expire on the substrate without calcium (they will do well enough if the general hardness is 4 or higher). I've had Amanos in all of my tanks for years and these are the only issues I've ever had to deal with. Your water parameters are fine, and although I too am a proponent of the drip method, I would suspect they would die in the first 24 hours if acclimation was the problem. Good luck.