Need help with parts for CO2 system

[charlie]

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=129540
http://www2.mathesongas.com/pdfs/products/Regulators-Product-Line-Overview.pdf

[exv152]

In conclusion a two stage regulator is a good option if you want to prevent EOTD from ever happening. While a single stage regulator could cause EOTD if not monitored regularly, it is still a viable option for the money strapped person or someone that is always checking his tanks and changes his tanks when he see's them dropping below 2000 psi (or the standing pressure of your tank) and never allows it to drop below 1000 psi.

A side note I am not sure if 5,10 or 15lb tanks are filled up to 2000 - 3000 psi like my 20lb, but when you get your filled tank you will see your standing pressure and that is the pressure you need to use to gauge when your tank needs to be changed.

BTW all co2 tanks, whether 5, 10, 15 or 20 lbs tanks are all filled to ~ 800psi max. This will vary depending on the ambient temperature,  but if anyone ever happens to get 2000psi you've got a serious problem. In warmer temperatures your gauge may read 1000psi, and in cooler temps it'll be closer to 800. The only time a tank is filled to 3500psi is when it's being hydro tested and it's only for a limited time. If you have a tank that's filled to more than 1000psi you'll want to bring it back to the filling station because chances are they've overfilled it, and this does happen occassionally. Never had it happen with Davidson's.

Also, single stage are a good budget option, but there are other very good reasons to get a dual  other than EOTD, i) fluctuation & drifting and ii) for being able to adjust the working pressure higher than the standard 30psi working pressure. Some can be adjusted up to 200psi, maybe even higher. If you know what you're looking for you can pick a used one up for about $150-$200.

All that said I've had some single stages with good quality needle valves that have never had an EOTD. They'll just slowly reduce in working pressure, but you still get fluctuations in adjusted bubble count and I've also had some challenges when splitting the feed.

[CC-Slider]

Thanks for the correction the video of the Milwaukee regulator threw me off as it goes up to 3,500, I assumed it was similar to mine, just with out the green and red areas showing full and close to empty. (Should of checked it) So I guessed on the PSI base on where my red and green markings would be on that gauge. When I put on my glasses and looked closely at my gauge, (Small print in dim areas are hard for me to read so I total rely on the red and green markings) I could see the green starts at 600 to 1200 psi and the red starts at 200 psi, but I do remember exactly where my gauge was when I took it in to refill and that mark is actually 400 psi and it still took two weeks to drop from the 800 to 400 psi mark

So my conclusion needs to be changed to:
For EOTD as long as your psi stays in the green as per my gauge (600 to 1200 psi) and you refill it before you hit the red (200 to 0 psi) and checking it once a week or along with your water changes you should be fine with a single stage regulator. So if your new to CO2 and want to get into it don't be afraid to go for the single stage if cost is a concern. Of course if you have the extra money or serious on doing multiple tanks and splitting it off of one tank then go for the two stage. As exv123 stated in the quote below the single may have other issues like when splitting the feed and fluctuations, they are not as serious as EOTD, but you do need to know this and make adjustments for these possible issues

All that said I've had some single stages with good quality needle valves that have never had an EOTD. They'll just slowly reduce in working pressure, but you still get fluctuations in adjusted bubble count and I've also had some challenges when splitting the feed.

Thanks to Charlie and exv152 for the correction. My intentions is for everyone to get the correct information and enough so they can make an knowledgeable decision. I would hate to see someone who wanted to get into Co2 planted tanks and then decided not to because they could afford a single stage, but not a two stage and believe if they got the single they would kill all there fish. At the same time if they do get a single stage they should know the pit falls and what to look out for when using one and how to deal with the draw backs so they can get the best possible experience and still afford it.

[charlie]

Just to add, at the recent club meeting, it`s not absolute necessary to go 2 stage , but it does offer some advantages and nice to have.
They are several aspects that contributes to EOTD in a single stage such as poor quality regulator units, the Milwaukee & Dici readily comes to mind, issues are well documented - drifting from the poor quality   needle valve leads the way, In fact Milwaukee at one time changed there instructions to the following - open needle valve   before opening the working pressure - open working pressure slowly to desired bubble rate and then fine tune with the needle valve or something to that effect 
Almost all the post you read where folks say the "X" single stage never had an EOTD is because they are not injecting a high rate of CO2, so the impact of the EOTD is not as drastic, in other words if you are injecting at a high rate to suffice the demand of the plants, the risk of EOTD is more likely .

I always say the customer service from Milwaukee is second to none, i know this because i once had 3 of them.
Regards