The 75.

[bitterman]

Are you planning on aging or prep'ing your water before your water changes?  Or just small partials?

Adding ph7+ water to a tank with a pH of less than 6 ... might have issues there...

While building the stand Art was pondering (I suggested it) getting a used 33 gallon tank and using it to put a heater and filter with peat in to to prepare if for water changes, such that he does not make his tea colour water too light after water changes and the ph swing could be a huge issue.

[artw]

I typed this earlier but the site went down so here it is.

I discussed that with Matt, he is under the impression I can do small partials.  Bruce however, was suggesting that I should put a small 33 gallon under the stand, sort of like a sump, so i can pretreat my water.   I'll have to play it by year.  this method may be easier than doing 2 or 3  5% waterchanges each week (or whatever it takes)

[BigDaddy]

Yeah.. my biggest concern would be that below a pH of 6, biological activity drops, but then again so does ammonia toxicity.  Suddenly shift that back up over with high pH tapwater, and maybe the biological filter wouldn't kick in fast enough.

It's all theory though, right?  I guess real-world will be the answer.  If it was my tank, I'd probably have the 33 underneath... but then again its not my tank 

[artw]

well in my 90 this happens all of the time. the PH is all over the place.  I am not as vigilant about the Co2 as I should, well normally it stays around 6.5 or so... I honestly havent been paying much attention to it and I do a 50% each week...   then again barbs and tetras are pretty bulletproof. I wouldn't do this with apistos or whatever I end up putting in The 75

[fishycanuck]

Artw, any time is waxing time, honey, but I'll wait for ribfest.
As for maintaining pH during water changes, is there no acidic fluid which could be added to the water as the change is being made? Vinegar? Cat pee? Single malt scotch? 

[artw]

Perhaps the aforementioned Taylor Fladgate First Estate would lower the PH, but I prefer to put that in a glass instead of the large glass box which is owned by The Cat.
Back in my cichlid days, you know, when you had to walk to work up hill both ways in 2 feet of snow,  I used to use citric acid to bring down the PH in quarantine tanks so that it matched that of the fish bags from whence they came, usually from a late CRLCA auction.  after so long in bags you see the PH can be way down low. 

but I digress.  Jody you have taught me well.  I think I will go the pretreat tank route but simply use a rubbermaid or something. Jenny should enjoy that, she can have a bath whenever she likes.  It would be a shame to pour all of this lovely orange pekoe colour water down the drain.  wait a minute. I would have to do this anyway.  its the other way around thats the problem.

Another latte! that should fix things up right.  and its Ear, not Year. 

[artw]

Update.  my pH is under 6 and my KH is 1; well, when I add a drop of solution it turns green, not blue or yellow so I guess that means its 0.5 dh.
I am borrowing a pH meter to verify it exactly.  I don't want it going too low before I add fish, but once they get acclimated I'll drop it to around 4ish.  (acid pools in the Amazon are around 4-5ph and can be upwards of 96F in temperature, reference: a book we have at the store)

it will be a challenge for sure keeping fish alive in these conditions, let alone plants.

Tomorrow a small school of 3 line pencilfish and cardinal tetras will make their appearance, after a long drip acclimation of course.

[Seanc]

i can't wait to see it!! sounds so awesome.
one thing that i would have done differently thou, is i would have added all the fish, then made it into an acid pool. makes it a lot easier to add fish at the beginning, and you will have minimum casualty's because of stress from the low Ph.
good luck with the fish tomorrow!!

[artw]

yes I had considered that, but me being the impatient guy that I am.  Ah well cardinals and pencilfish are pretty bulletproof.  I'll just be extra careful.

[BigDaddy]

Actually art, I had read a study they did on tilapia and low pH values.  They took the pH down rapidly to 4 (within 6 hours) and then monitored them for hours... days.... WEEKS.

No signs of stress or disease.  The conclusion of the study (which is pertinent to fish keepers who fear the dreaded pH "crash") is that a rapid drop in pH values only does not impact fish heath in subjects.

V. J. T. Van Ginneken, R. Van Eersel, P. Balm, M. Nieveen, G. Van Den Thillart (1997) "Tilapia are able to withstand long-term exposure to low environmental pH, judged by their energy status, ionic balance and plasma cortisol"

[mseguin]

Gotta love paper titles that summarize the entire study 

[BigDaddy]

LOL... yeah I thought they could have titled the study better.....

[fishycanuck]

Why does the pH have to be so low?

[babblefish1960]

So he can exfoliate while cleaning the tank at the same time.

[fishycanuck]

OK, sure. Can't be too careful around oxygen dihydroxide, can we?

[artw]

well you know, oxygen dihydroxide can kill ya

[artw]

Well, here is the last picture of the 75 you'll see from me anyway,  but certainly not of my cat.  The stand that Bruce built for me is currently sitting under my 90 as you can see,  and the sunrise a couple weeks ago couldn't be missed.

http://artw.myvnc.com/gallery/view_album.php?page=1&set_albumName=album53

[hamstercaster]

Very nice job!! Now I need to get my father in law to make one for me.. or at least help me buld it.. He's retired and has all the needed tools so I'm sure he won't mind doing one on his free time 

[artw]

Bruce (bitterman) actually has a duplicate copy of that stand for sale, you could probably PM him for more information.