Any comments on this NASTY Discus Disease? (see pics)

[wild_cory]

Hi... I'm new to this forum but I've been in the hobby for years and having worked the trade (thankfully no more) I've seen examples of just about every fish disease out there... except this one. If this is simply hith... it's no hith I've ever seen. I'm posting this just to see if anyone else has encountered it.

The Pics (WARNING...YUCK):

(I wish I had some to show the progression from simple ulcers near the fins to full blown hith a few days before death... the medication cocktail has healed the redness and white puss inside the holes... see how they started as lumps? (2nd pic by tail)... head and lateral line erosion VERY prominant in the last week of contracting ulcers on body that ate right through the fish's body!!... fish is bloated during last 3 days, gill plates destroyed exposing healthy gill on one side)





The Tank:
75 gal
eheim ecco bio filtration
old garbage fluval for particulate filtration
eco complete substrate
coralife compact flourescent lights
ebo jager heater @ 81 F
normal parameters
heavily planted
discus... red turquoise, red malboro, pigeon blood, blue diamond, tangerines
sterbae and panda cories
gorgeous

The Story:
It started out as a simple lesion on the head... we thought the blue diamond discus had merely scratched itself during one of the 'hand of god' escapades while tending the plants. I wasn't too concerned as I have seen many a fish recover on their own just fine and many a panic attack for medication do way more harm than good. Close follow up observation over the next 3 days saw the lesion lapse into something a little more serious... and there was a mysterious lump just under the skin at the base of the dorsal fin... 'here we go', I thought. The fish was immediately moved to quarantine.

Here's where the nightmare began. They started out as lumps just under the skin and then as the lump came out it was a white cottony jelly like mass. Then it got surrounded by redness until the whole thing was a festering sore. The sores got worse then ATE through the fish's body. The sores on the gill plate ate the bone away to expose the red gill tissue underneath.

At first I suspected hole in the head, heximeta, but how... if the discus are spoiled with a varied diet of pellets and frozen foods and treats, breeding like mad, and the water fine, the plants thriving out of control? ...furthermore... there was only one sore on his head and many more on his body. There were no signs of hith like you see in the pics until the last week leading up to death.

I suspected bacteria due to the mysterious flesh eating properties and thus treated with erythromycin having had excellent results in the past (please note the quarantine tank has aquarium salt in it already). 1 week later I had no luck kicking this thing. Next I naturally tried a fungus medication even though I had doubts that it was even fungus (if not bacteria the reasoning was perhaps I was dealing with a bacteria-like fungus). Within the next 4 days the fish got considerably worse developing more sores while the others turned into holes (I believe the erythromycin was slowing down the infection but not curing it). The discus also developed a black discolored patch on one side. In my desperation to get something more traditional and broader I tried tetracyclin and anti parasitic. The cysts were sometimes streaming tentrils at this point and while not at all like an anchor worm they did look susupicious, hense the parasite reasoning. Also the feces at this point just looked strange.

All this time the fish was very alert and eating. His appetite did diminish during the last few days until he stopped eating all together. At the end of 2 weeks he was bloated... but the sores were healing. Something else was wrong.

Looking at his skin it seemed like he had some of the classic signs of Hole in the head that weren't there before: pits in his nose, lateral line erosion. It could have been caused by lack of nutrition as he stopped eating... maybe he had it all along and didn't manifest until he got sick. Perhaps hexamita infested his gut and got a hold on him in the final 3 days causing his gut to swell.

Was this simply hith? I've seen many pics of hith but nothing like this.

Whatever the heck this disease was... it's scary... and ugly! Any thoughts, theories, or comments are welcome!

[squeeker]

I'm not sure what it is... but could it somehow be related to the koi ulcer disease?  It leaves huge, gaping wounds in the fish as well, often along the lateral line and gill plates.  It is most effectively treated with potassium permangenate; the wounds themselves are packed with the crystals and then the disease goes away rather quickly.  Just an idea, maybe a place to start researching, anyway?

Also, what about fish TB?

[wild_cory]

Thanks for your input!

I'll definitely look into the possibilities of koi ulcer as I remember reading that sometimes it's not just confined to koi... I really hope it's not fish TB... naturally I'm paranoid about the rest of my beautiful discus as they are not just pets but part of our creature family! If it pops up again I'll try your suggestion about potassium permangenate seeing as the medications I chose didn't do much except keep the wounds clean and allowed them to heal somewhat.

Poor fish! He will be greatly missed

[mseguin]

Are yuo referring to KHV squeeker (Koi Herpes Virus). As far as I know that is restricted to carp, although similar illnesses have been found in gouramis and another kind of fish.

[BigDaddy]

I have seen pictures of Oscars with severe cases of HLLE a.k.a HITH where the lesions spread beyond the head and the lateral line and into other sections of the fish's body.  Barring an autopsy, I think HLLE is likely a fairly accurate assumption.

[wild_cory]

*sigh*

Thank you all for your input.

I'm afraid you're right BigDaddy... HLLE seems to be the likely culprit. I was hoping it was something else more curable. I'll have to keep a close eye on the rest of 'em. Perhaps a step up in water changes and even more variety in diet is in order. I hope it was simply confined to the one fish... the blue diamond was the newest one added to the tank... and so far after a thorough checking no one else has any signs of HITH.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[mseguin]

HITH is definitely curable, I've seen very good results on discus with Metro