The Quarantine Dilema

[Soft1]

Well we've gone through a recent bunch of crap trying to get our tanks stable and had fish in and out of quarantine for about 2 weeks.  It's driving me crazy!  One fish seems to be better (or dies - we lost a discus recently) and then another of it's tank mates (from the larger tanks) falls ill!

We do a 50% change every week or 25% every time a fish is taken out of the quarantine tank.  Depending on the meds used.... we follow the directions re: water changes.

Our discus tank hadn't had any new problems for over a week - now one of the mollies in there seems to be starting a fungus.  Everyone else is fine.  Another of the mollies had been in the quarantine tank for about 2 weeks being treated for a 'white spot' - could have been fungus or whole in the head...but it cleared up and so after a couple of clear days back he went.

In the other tank, where we'd had the highest losses, we noticed one platy with what appeared to be a worm....she got moved to quarantine.  Then a molly with fungus on her side, she got moved to quarantine, then a clown loach with ich (and yes, only the one fish has it), then a swordtail with the beginnings of a fungus....ugh...so all but the worm one are back in the large tank and we're treating for ich and fungus.

Our dilema is are we simply moving illnesses from one fish to another within the quarantine tank?  Since they had different issues how the heck do you treat them all?  Are we simply better off treating the entire tank when it comes to finding one fish with ich, or one fish with a fungus?  Or, should we remove them as we did?

[succinctfish]

Are they all in the quarantine tank at the same time?  Or successively?  The purpose of a quarantine tank is to isolate a sick fish, and be able to treat it in a controlled environment. If you are putting different fish with different illnesses in the tank together, you are exposing compromised fish, which are more susceptible to illness, to whatever is wrong with the other fish.  This is not a good idea.  It's difficult because fish don't become ill in an orderly fashion, and who has room for multiple quarantine tanks.  Depending upon what is going wrong in a tank, sometimes it makes the most sense to treat the entire tank, if it is something that will be lurking in the substrate, or on the other fish, but if it is something only affecting one fish, it is better and cheaper to medicate in a smaller tank.  Sometimes a dip is possible in which case the fish could be treated in a bucket or bowl and then returned to the main tank. My sympathies for your spate of fish illnesses at the moment.

[Fishnut]

Yes, a quarantine tank should be used one fish at a time, but it should remain in the tank until it is better and the a few more days to be sure it's ok.  If you have no other choice other than to put fish from different tanks in a single quarantine tank, make sure that ALL fish are beter before introducing any of them back to their original tank.

You have mollies in your discus tank?  They have completely different water requirements and should not be mixed.  Discus like very soft, extremely warm water (85 + degrees) and Mollies like cooler hard water that has a high salt content.  They're a brackish fish (part way between salt and fresh).  Perhaps the reason for your troubles is that you're not giving the fish the environment they require.

What are the inhabitants of each of your tanks?

[Soft1]

We do try to do 1 fish at a time in the quarantine tank...sadly though it all happened suddenly.  First the Discus got sick so we moved the inhabitants of our quarantine tank out - we generally keep a couple of mollies in there just so it isn't 'empty' and because our sail fin is either constantly nipping at our male lyre-tail, or vice versa. 

So, to keep the two male mollies separate they each have a harem - one male with 2 females in the quarantine tank and the other one with his harem in a community tank. 

You have mollies in your discus tank?  They have completely different water requirements and should not be mixed.

When we had to move the Discus to the quarantine tank we moved those mollies to the Discus tank.  We'd asked around and were told it shouldn't be a problem...and if we put them in the community tank the fighting starts immediately.  We thought it would be better for the mollies than the fighting to have them in the Discus tank.  But yes, it was the male sailfin who shortly thereafter developed the 'white spot' near an eye - not much bigger than a pin prick...and then we put them back into the quarantine tank.

Are they all in the quarantine tank at the same time?  Or successively?

Generally no, as above, three mollies make it their home - unless it is needed as a quarantine tank.  However, yes, unfortunately our fish weren't accommodating at all and decided to get sick at or around the same time.  By the time the one with a worm was ill the Discus that didn't die was back in its tank.  Only the mollies remained in the small tank.  And, no one else in either tank was showing any signs of illness.

Then a day later a swordtail had the fungus - from the same tank as the platy with the worm.  We took her out and put her in the quarantine tank.  Then a day after that we saw ich on the clown loach...again from the same home tank.

Sometimes a dip is possible in which case the fish could be treated in a bucket or bowl and then returned to the main tank.

I've read up on dips, and from what I found there isn't one for a 'worm'...is there?  We thought about doing the dip for the molly with the fungus but someone recommended against it....

What are the inhabitants of each of your tanks?

55 gal - mollies, platys, angels, clown loaches, algae eaters and corys - angels, algae eaters and corys seem unaffected by the recent outburst of illnesses.  Temp is around 79 - 80, water is brackish, no water softeners in this tank.  This tank has one clown loach with ich, one swordtail with a fungus right now and the tank is being treated.

55 gal - discus, tetras, clown loaches and columbian sharks (the tetras, sharks and clown loaches have never shown any illness - and still don't).  For a bit of time there were also 3 mollies and 7 molly fry...yep one gave birth while in this tank...all the fry are doing well and growing like weeds and so remain in the Discus tank...for now.  The 3 other mollies are back in the quarantine tank with a platy.

[Fishnut]

Wow...odd mix!  The Columbian Sharks are brackish though.  Seeing as they are unaffected, then I guess leave them.

When I say brackish, I mean much more salt that the recommended 1 TBSP per gallon.  It is recommended, that to make brackish water, you need to use 2TBSP of Marine Salt per gallon.  I say this because I have never heard of Angel fish being able to tolerate that amount of salt...cory catfish and clown loaches are also very sensitive to that level of salt.  Is it brackish or are you just adding a bit of aquarium salt?  Here is a link:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html

Since I don't want to thread jack, I suggest you research the fish you have mixed together and what they're requirements are, etc.  If you're a beginner, sometimes it's not the best idea to rely on what staff at some pet shops tell you.  U know from experience that they just hire whatever kids they can find and they're not always up on their fish knowledge, or they just want to sell you something.  If you do some independent research and come up with the same answer, then great! 

The worm in your fish is something that will likely isolate itself with that fish.  I have seen it before in live bearers.  Clout is a product that says it can rid a fish of parasites, although I'm not certain of it's ability to rid a fish of internal parasites.

The Mollies in the quarantine tank should stay there no matter what.  They will, unfortunately, be the sacrificial fish if they succumb to a disease that is introduced to the tank by another fish.

[Soft1]

Since I don't want to thread jack...

lol...jack away...since it's all good info and related doesn't bother me!

The intent was to keep the columbian sharks in the community tank... we moved them when the other tank was 'fish ready' just to have something in there at first.  They're happy and behave the same way as they did in the other tank...so yeah, if they're happy I say leave 'em.

We got mixed reviews about the Discus tank too...some say no tetras - too small...others say go for it.  Books don't always agree either.  We were advised to go with clown loaches (which we've grown to love!) to help keep our tank clean and clear of snails...and what an awesome job they're doing!

It is recommended, that to make brackish water, you need to use 2TBSP of Marine Salt per gallon....Is it brackish or are you just adding a bit of aquarium salt?

Guess our's is not brackish by that definition....we add 1 tbsp of Acquarium Salt per 5gal.

About the pet stores.... it is rather confusing when you get different info from different shops!  However, not one of them ever indicates that their mollies are in brackish water - in fact after reading that they like brackish we asked at, oh at least 5 shops, and they all said no.  And, we didn't ask the 'kids'...lol  But online we read that they do...so we added aquarium salt.

There's confusion too with the variety of info available online.  Some say do, many say don't.  Guess we went middle of the road.

So far everyone said Angels with mollies was a good mix.... maybe we didn't get info from the right people?

The Mollies in the quarantine tank should stay there no matter what.  They will, unfortunately, be the sacrificial fish if they succumb to a disease that is introduced to the tank by another fish.

Yep that's what we're figuring too. 

[Fishnut]

Sorry OVAS moderators...here I go

Discus tend to be a finicky fish.  They require a high water temperature and very soft water.  Some people use reverse osmosis water (void of any and all minerals) mixed with tap water to achieve perfect water conditions.  I don't think that's 100% necessary in Ottawa though.  The temperature, however seems to be a requirement in maintaining their health and appetite.  In saying that, it does limit the species you can mix with discus...planted or fishy...as many species simply can't tolerate the high temperature.  Some tetras do well with them, others don't.  You also want to keep in mind the feeding habits of the fish you mix with discus.  Discus are very slow eaters compared to a lot of other fish, so you should add fish that aren't going to gobble up all the food before the discus have the time to eat a significant amount of it.  Discus also get stressed easily.  They should be mixed with fish that aren't zipping and swimming circles around them, or fish that tend to fight amongst themselves.  I have kept Cardinal Tetras and Rummy-nose tetras with Discus very successfully.  I also kept clown loaches with them at one point, but I decided to put a lot of plants in the tank and wanted snails as algae eaters, so the clown loaches found another home.

As far as the mollies are concerned, I can assure you that they really like brackish water...especially the beautiful sail fin mollies.  I even heard that people use mollies to cycle a saltwater tank because they can tolerate the salt level and are a lot cheaper than marine fish.  Most pet shops do keep their mollies and other brackish water fish in 100% fresh water because they can't afford to take a tank or two off the main system and set them up as brackish water and mollies are the most tolerable fish, so they don't tend to crash as easily as some other brackish species.  Keep in mind that this is only a temporary home.

I agree that information on fish-keeping is confusing to say the least.  There are s many ways of doing so many things that people really have to absorb as much as they can and make choices for themselves.  As a fish enthusiast and someone with a bad case of MTS, I have been collecting the Baench Aquarium Atlas series of books. I call them my fish bibles.  Generally, the information in there is correct and fish keepers have been referencing this series for a very long time.  BA on has these books.  I would always suggest you buy them, but if they're not something you want to invest in perhaps ask to have a look next time you're visiting.

[Soft1]

Sorry OVAS moderators...here I go

Not sure what you need to apologize for...lol...at least you're giving advice and seemingly from a position of knowledge.

As far as RO goes, it has only been suggested by one person at BA.  Any one else we've asked about it hence has said nope, not required.  Now, we don't live in Ottawa -we're in the country on a well.  So, would it then make a difference?

Our tetras are glowlights and cardinals...

Perhaps you have a point re: mixing mollies with angels - and yes, I've been the link you posted and did read about the mollies prefering brackish water.  Since they are 'adaptable' we'll simply leave them where they are for now.  Once we get a 4th tank we'll look to setting up a brackish environment and move them. 

We bought mollies and angels the same day and we asked and questioned the sales person ad nauseum before making the final decision...since we had two fish ready tanks angels went in one and the mollies in the other for 2 weeks before putting them together.  What irks me is that if this was a crappy mix it would have been nice if when asked we'd been told!

[Fishnut]

I always find that well water is harder than city water, so RO is something worth exploring, especially if you are really into discus.  It is, however, a giant pain in the bum to go buy RO water and cart it home for your water changes every week.  Discus can get used to harder water, but don't tend to thrive as they do with proper water parameters. 

I get irked every time I hear people have mixed fish improperly after taking advice from a fish person at a pet shop.  There are very few staff that truly know a lot about fish.  Just because the pet shop does it, doesn't mean it's the proper way.  Unfortunately, a lot of staff only learn by copying the pet shops and that's not good.  I used to be in a pet shop fish room and actually got into an argument with a new boss over mollies believe it or not!  He insisted that they were freshwater, like all other live bearerers and I finally proved my point when I pulled 2 different fish books off the shelf to show him that they were brackish.  He had it in for me from that point forward...lol.  I'm so glad I quit.

[fishycanuck]

Clearly you need more tanks.  Every quarantine tank I've had turns into a regular tank sooner or later. 

[Soft1]

Clearly you need more tanks

Ha!  Like that isn't exactly what hubby said!    Though, 3 tanks, 3 big dogs and 2 horses sounds like enough to me!  (for this week)