30 gallon project for my 5 year old son

[Marinus]

Hello my new fish friends,

I'm new to FW setups and livestock and could really use some help with these questions:

1. I would really like some plants but fear they would be high maintenance. Are there plants that are relatively easy to keep and can do well with low lighting? If there are some, what would I need?

2. Continuing on the first question, could you suggest some relatively easy, hardy and inexpensive fish for this type of environment.

3. How long would it take before I could expect to add some plants and fish to the tank from time its setup.

4. I know there are some great deals now and then in the classifieds here. What would be a reasonable expectation to get something like this going (I'm not in a hurry, I can wait for a good deal to come around).

5. And last but not least, based on these questions, could someone please be so kind as to share with me some online references to articles on "setting up your first fresh water _____ plant/_____fish tank"?

Thanks everyone! 

[Laura]

Don't be afraid of plants.  There are lots of easy ones that do well in low light (and often available at the auctions!)  Java fern, java moss, anubius and african fern all do well under low light conditions and need to be attached to driftwood or stone (wood works better IMO).  They are great for starting out.

For starting out, one of the first things you need to understand is the cycling process.  My favourite description is by luvfishies who used to spend time on this forum. Here's a link to her description (3rd post down) http://www.fishinthe.net/html/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10343&start=15&sid=6e8544ef08a47c6da7a7a9d6606ebfc9
There are a number of folks online who will also trade/give you some filter material to kick-start the cycling process and save you some time.

Do not get goldfish thinking that they are easy starter fish.  Although they are fabulous fish with fantastic personalities, they are piggies that grow big, need a lot of room and tons of filtration.

Are you going to have a heater, and if not, what temp does your house stay at?  You may also want to check out our upcoming speaker who will be doing a presentation on small tanks that don't need a heater.

I would suggest taking your son to a fish store and finding out what he likes the look of - then you can check back with us for some opinions. 

I have a couple of boys that have had a tank in their room for a few years - the big attraction for the oldest one (7 years) is the decorations.  He loves the skulls and castles, but also appreciates the fish.  I would suggest finding out what your son likes the look of and taking it from there.

(edit - your avatar is adorable by the way)

[Anja]

I find planted easier than unplanted. The water chemistry almost takes care of itself. At the end of the week just before the water change, my nitrates barely register in the test.

For an unheated tank I'm thinking of minnows as easy, but I can't wait for this month's presentation to see what else is out there. 

For a heated tank maybe some peppered cories and glowlights for starters.

But I'd go with what Laura said, see what your son likes and play it from there.

cc,
Anja

[sdivell]

A planted low light tank with some colourful livebearers.  Your son can see fry grow into adult fish.

The best part is platies are very hardy fish and can withstand less than perfect water conditions and still end up spitting out fry like baby factories.  If your tank has some dence plants like water sprite or java fern for the fry to hide in you will see making it into adult fish.

[Marinus]

Thank you everyone!

Great, plants it will be then.

I have an old 96W PC light with a 50/50 (daylight/actinic) bulb that's actually for saltwater. You think I could get away with using the old SW bulb and never change it? I think it won't any worse than it is now. But I'm just wondering if the red specturm of the old bulb will be food for bad bacteria... for example how it caused a cyano outbreak in my SW tank.

Laura ~ thank you for your kind words about my wife and kids. My boys very much would like a pirate ship and those kinds of decorations also. Of all the things he's asked for, I was of course happy he wanted a tank because then I get to enjoy it too! So I think it will be a mix of some plants for daddy and some sunken pirate ships for the boys. And of course he will be able to select the fishies, as long as they are hardy and do well in the type of tank we'll end up with.

Laura and Anja ~ unheated or heated, great question! Well, this summer it got quite warm in our living room, the tank water got upto 85 some days! (I like to keep it at 78). I'm thinking of moving the tanks to the basement where it stays cool, even in the summer. I guess I'll have to go to my LFS with my son and let the type of fish he likes decide on having either an unheated or heated tank.

sdivell ~ see fry grow into adult fish... I love it! What a great idea! Some of those livebearers have quite some tail. Very cool!

I'm really looking forward to this project. Right now I'm just researching as there are some things I still need for the SW tank.

Cheers!

Serge

[KLKelly]

Yah - steer away from goldfish if you want low maintenance and plants lol.  Fancies need heat too (don't listen to fish store people if they say otherwise) and they aren't nearly as hardy as they were years ago.

I don't know about that lighting.  I have the same light over our nano.  Wouldn't it be quite small compared to the width of a 30 gallon?  There are so many plant geeks on this forum I'm sure you'll get an expert reply.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you decide to populate the tank with. Have fun

[Marinus]

Hi KLKelly,

Yes, I've heard that about glodfish as well. I went by Pet Smart at lunch just because... well... just because. And there are so many pretty FW fish to choose from. I'll have lots of questions about some of them soon when I have more time to drop by with my son and see which ones he likes.

As for the light, the fixture I have is 36", which is why I was I was thinking of going with a 36" 30G tank. Otherwise, 20G might be big enough. Will look at tank sizes more but if someone could give me some feedback on if an old 96W PC 50/50 SW bulb would work well for FW, that will help me decide on what tank to look for. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't want to spend $70 for a new bulb every year. In that case I may find alternative lighting.

If anyone has some comments about this light I would really appreciate it.

Cheers! 

[sdivell]

That bulb/fixture isn't the best option for what you are trying to do.  96watts on a 30gallon tank is 3.2watts per gallon making it a pretty high light tank for plants.  You would be now looking at pressurized Co2 to keep the plants healthy.

Look into getting a T-5 light fixture for this tank.  Either buy a stock off the shelf one like this:
http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp17943/si2949165/cl0/currentusanovaextreme362x39wt510000kfreshwater

Or look into a DIY light hood with some T-5 fixtures from a hydroponics store.  Charlie is a good person to ask about this.

[charlie]

Hi Serge , welcome to OVAS on line community, if you have made up your mind on a planted tank, the following link will provide you with a in depth guideline on everything about planted tanks, if you still have some questions , please feel free to post them in our planted tank forum where you will get a ton of advice, speaking of which, the planted forum has a bunch of info there too , where a lot of questions were dealt with by various members, makes for some good night reading 
Regards
http://www.rexgrigg.com/

[Marinus]

Thanks sdivell and charlie,

I'll keep an eye open in the classifieds for a better suited light for plants.

Great little article charlie! Some things in there I wouldn't have thought of that I'm now glad I know.

Cheers!

[Fishnut]

I wanted to show you what a lazy aquarist is capable of.  My tank is low light, stocked full of plants, has some beautiful fish in it and I hardly do anything to it.

This is my 75 Bowfront.  Have a look at my signature for the list of fish, but I have lots of valesneria, cryptocrenes, a couple of mosses, some java fern and a few other plants I can't remember the names of.  Some plants did not do well in this tank and I took them out to put in a different one.  The remining plants have flourished.  I used 50% natural gravel and 50% Flourite for the substrate and it's 3" deep.  The lighting is a double T6 fourescent fixture with a 11,0000K bulb to stimulate natural sunlight and another one that promotes plant growth, but it doesn't have a very strong output.

Here's some pics of it's development.  I have to go take a recent pic!!!

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[Fishnut]

Ok, here is the tank today...almost a year later.  My angel fish followed me around in most of the pics begging for his food...lol.

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[Vizerdrix]

And she won second place in our "Home Show" for that tank, too!

[Marinus]

I wanted to show you what a lazy aquarist is capable of.  My tank is low light, stocked full of plants, has some beautiful fish in it and I hardly do anything to it.

This is my 75 Bowfront.  Have a look at my signature for the list of fish, but I have lots of valesneria, cryptocrenes, a couple of mosses, some java fern and a few other plants I can't remember the names of.  Some plants did not do well in this tank and I took them out to put in a different one.  The remining plants have flourished.  I used 50% natural gravel and 50% Flourite for the substrate and it's 3" deep.  The lighting is a double T6 fourescent fixture with a 11,0000K bulb to stimulate natural sunlight and another one that promotes plant growth, but it doesn't have a very strong output.

Here's some pics of it's development.  I have to go take a recent pic!!!

That's a beautiful tank, Fishnut! A 30G version of just what you have there would be very cool!

Thanks everyone, I now know what I want... ehum, I mean, what my son wants. Actually I showed him your pictures Fishnut, and he really likes it too!

Thanks again!

Una (my son) and Serge

[Marinus]

Hope you don't mind the double post but I have an update. I just picked up sdivell's 21G with 2x18watt fluorescent lights, and he threw in a AC filter as well. Thanks sdivell, and thank you Charlie for letting me know about this great deal.

sdivell has a beautiful tank by the way! Had I more time I would have liked to ask him a lot of questions, of which I will now ask you.

So, now that I have a 21G with 2x18watt fluorescents and a filter, what would I still need for a planted (java fern, java moss, anubius, african fern) setup?

1. I have two extra maxi-jet 900s that I used in my SW setup, sould I put one in my 21G? If so, should I use it as a bubbler and if not do I need a bubbler?

2. Do I need a heater for these plants?

3. What kind of substrate do I need?

4. Does it matter what kid of driftwood I get?

5. What am I missing?

Thank you in advance! This will be a lot of fun for me and my sons!

Cheers!

Serge

[Laura]

Fantastic!
Assuming the AC is big enough for the tank, I wouldn't bother with the powerheads unless you have fish that prefer high current.  Some do such as danios and white clouds.

All the plants you list like to be attached to wood.  I personally like the heavy driftwoods that sink without a piece of slate attached. 

All driftwood leaches tannins when you first introduce them.  This will turn your water yellow.  Not a problem for the fish unless they like a high ph. but some people aren't keen on it esthetically.  I would suggest immersing your wood in boiling water for a couple of days, changing it periodically and getting rid of the bulk of the tannins (unless you want a 'blackwater' feel in the tank.

I tie my plants on with brown cotton thread and let the thread eventually disintegrate.  It may also look good to have some taller plants that you can plant in the substrate.  Crypts work well in medium light and C. balansae is very pretty esp. for a taller tank.

All the plants will be fine at room temperature, the requirement of a heater will depend on the fish or critters you want to keep.

It sounds like a fun project.  You and your family may want to come out to the auction - all the plants you listed are commonly there for great prices. 

[sdivell]

Hey Serge,

Glad you're happy with it.... I'll be watching this thread closely to see how your project turns out.

The AC30 i gave you is sized for 10-30 gallon tanks, so it will be fine to move the water and keep it clean without the use of the powerheads.

If you plan to keep tropic fish in that tank you will need to pick up a 100-150watt heater.  I'm sure someone on here will have one kicking around.  As for the plants though as already mentioned will be fine at room temp. and you can find some great cold water fish as well if you plan to go that route.

as for what you need next.
Substrate - for a planted aquarium you can go the $$ route and get a plant substrate like flourite (i use this in my tank) or eco-complete..etc. or you can also get away with just plain gravel.

Pick up some decorations this up to your style and how you wish to aquascape it, some driftwood and some rocks.  Since this is for your "son" as you say  you way want to let him pick out a castle or a sunken ship or something else fun.

Test kids and water conditioner.  You should grab a test kits for:
Nitrate
Nitrate
Ammonia
and grab a bottle of water conditioner.  a lot of memebers on here swear by using Prime and thats fine, but its a little on the expensive side.  I use generic tap water conditioner and have not had any problems with it.

When you get the tank set up and filled with water you might want to see if you can grab some dirty filter material from someone here to jump start your cycle.

[RossW]

and grab a bottle of water conditioner.  a lot of memebers on here swear by using Prime and thats fine, but its a little on the expensive side.  I use generic tap water conditioner and have not had any problems with it.

Not sure what you mean by "generic tap water conditioner" but here is a little bit of info from just over a year ago when I did a comparison.

API Tap Water Conditioner - is the best price, does it all except does not have slime coat stuff
Big Al's - Surprising is the most expensive, and does not do heavy metals
Prime - Does it all!  It does not mention heavy metal on the label but it does mention it on their website and their support guy confirmed it.

Taken from:
http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=19088.msg138120#msg138120

[Marinus]

Hey, thanks guys, haven't had a chance to come back to the site for a bit.

I think next Sunday we'll get going on this. Should be fun! Will let you know how it goes.

[Fishnut]

It sounds like you're off to a great start!!

1. I have two extra maxi-jet 900s that I used in my SW setup, sould I put one in my 21G? If so, should I use it as a bubbler and if not do I need a bubbler?

No.  The AC filter will be plenty, unless you like the look of the bubbles

2. Do I need a heater for these plants?

They'll grow at a slower pace in cooler water, but they'll be fine in cool water.

3. What kind of substrate do I need?

I like Flourite.  It's chocked full of nutrients and minerals that the plants will  need.  Remember, though, that your tank will look like a tank of mud for a few days when you use flourite so if you're hoping to start decorating this weekend, maybe this step should be done in the next day or so.  If you want to have the driftwood on the slate, that should be the only decoration added at the same time as the flourite.  You'll see the debris collected on the wood when the water clears .

4. Does it matter what kid of driftwood I get?

It's a preference of taste.  I have 3 pieces of driftwood in my tank.  2 are attached to slate, which I chose because of the shape and one is a bit of mopani wood that had a really nice hiding spot for my pleco.  Just choose what ou think looks good.  I even grab an empty tank off the shelf to plac the bits of wood in it to see what fits...just don't break it .

5. What am I missing?

Yes, get some testers (you'll need them to keep an eye on things as the tank cycles), some water conditioner, some good quality fertilizers (cheep is rarely good quality) and get a nice piece of hose and a bucket for water changes.  Since the settled debris is part of what you pay for with flourite, I have never vacuumed the bottom of my planted tank.  I rely on the plants and beneficial bacteria to break down any waste.  If you decide to get regular gravel, get a gravel vacuum.

Good luck!