PH dropping, don't know why

[cemantic]

See post http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=31474.0

We have a cattle trough with goldfish in it from our pond for the winter in our basement.  Added all kinds of water, filter material, plants, added grow lamps and we are still going through a cycle.  To be expected and so far it has not been too bad.  Ammonia is slowly going down 0 - 0.25 now nitrite is showing at about 1.0 for the last couple of days. 

BUT ...

The PH of water out of the tap is about 8.0 now from a high about a week ago of 8.8 and higher.  Doing about a 20% water change every night and adding Prime at about 4 times the recommended rate.  The problem is the PH is about 6.0 or lower and even with the high PH out of the tap it is not getting better.

Added two bags of zeolite to help with the ammonia.  Could that be causing the drop in the PH.  I started last night adding baking soda but not huge but will build this up.

I have to check the GH and KH.  I have some Seachem Equilibrium at home but have not used it yet.  What about Seachem Alkaline Buffer to help with the KH if necessary?

any suggestions?

[cemantic]

I found this article and may have answered my own question about the zeolite. 

http://books.google.ca/books?id=btextrlLAm8C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=PH+dropping+aquarium+zeolite&source=web&ots=SAaIQO2QpZ&sig=et38jBf70U1wCeQFjgsG-P9DHWM&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result

"Zeolite acts as a magnet for ammonia in particular.  Zeolite has the ability to exchange positively charged cations such as ammonia for sodium, but can also absorb such cations as calcium or magnesium.  It can be used as a softener agent, but be careful using it in an already softened aquarium, as it may drop the softness lower then you want it."

and this article ...

http://www.content4reprint.com/hobbies/the-nitrogen-cycle-and-your-aquarium.htm

"Nitrite is also dependent on pH, and if pH drops below 6.5, when nitrite is present in the water, the nitrite will convert to nitrous acid. This too, is very toxic to fishes."

I will take out the zeolite tonight and am going to add some crushed coral to the filter.

I will also continue to add some baking soda.

Does this make sense?

[fischkopp]

Also see my reply to your other thread:

http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=31474.msg203294#msg203294

Baking soda will help to stabilizing the pH.

As for ammonia and nitrite: zeolith is one way, but eventually you will need to get your bio filter up to speed. I would recommend daily water changes, going from extreme down two almost no water, than every second day ... along with overdosing Prime that should cover the time until the tank is cycled.

[dan2x38]

Becareful raising the pH with NH3 present. NH3 becomes extermely toxic at higher pH levels.

[tim_s]

Being that the water is sitting at 8.0?

Do you really want it higher? Or are you looking for a solution to make the water consistant?

Do you really need zeolite? (I have never used such a product in any of my tanks.)

[KLKelly]

The problem is goldfish need a ph of 7.0 or the water is toxic to them.

Prime detoxifies .60 of ammonia and doesn't affect PH.  You could do larger water changes.  I think Zeolite will lengthen your cycle also.  I would ditch it and do water changes.  You need to add salt to make the nitrite non toxic.  Using salt recharges zeolite and causes it to release ammonia back into the water.

What is the temperature of your water?  A PH of 7.0 ammonia won't get toxic until at least 1.0 at lower temps.  I have to go look up an ammonia toxicity table though.

[dan2x38]

I'd agree with the Zeolites making the cycle longer... plus it  potentially might leach NH3 back? Are you using an airstone or something? Lower or shut of lights... and yes lower temps allow for more O2... Also reduce feedings or skip a day. If the temp is really low then the metabolism is much slower and you want to be careful of how much food ends up sitting inside the goldfish if temps are real low?

[cemantic]

Thanks for the replies.

All is good in goldfish cattle trough land.  It has been fully cycled for the last couple of days or so.  All things considered it cycled very quickly.  0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, about 20 for Nitrates.  PH seems to be more stable though I do add some baking soda with the water changes.

It is fun to watch them.  There are the six originals plus 24 babies of various size, shape, kind and colour, from the spawning this summer.  Not sure what we will do in the spring.  We like the new Goldie's but most of them are pretty plain and haven't changed color yet. They are a brown with silver sides and bottoms.  Some of them are still changing color so maybe they all will eventually.

I have to rebuild the waterfall for the pond next spring and am seriously considering expanding the pond.  If so it will be deep enough that they can very safely spend the winter there.  Or half in the pond in the spring and the others stay in the indoor pond.

It is very fun to watch them.  Feeding time is always a fav for my wife and myself.  She is starting to name the ones that are easy to identify.

I will take some pics and post them.

[dan2x38]

That is aesome always great to hear success stories. 24 babies... wife better go online for more names... LOL