Pending disaster or fact of life??? help pls

[lost_at_sea]

I apologize in advance if this should go in equipment.

I just took a look behind my 90g to inspect the 1.5' overflow.... and I've noticed some salt creep all the way down the pipe. (it's been almost 8 months since I checked it last).  I got out my dyson and vacuumed up all the salt I could get at till the pipe looked nice and clean again.  Within a few minutes I noticed 1 or 2 drops of water starting to trickle it's way down the pipe.... concerning.

Is this a pending disaster a la ABS glue is failing and my overflow is gonna blow 90g of saltwater all over my house? or can I perhaps just run down the the store and apply some Silcon from a tube around the outer edge of the union?

or is this perhaps just one of those things and everyone that runs an overflow sees a little water get through the glue.

Thanks!

[jon1985]

silicone would be a patch, not sure if it would be a good long term fix.  I run an over lfow and dont have any leaks.

[redbelly]

Did you use the spa style bulkheads?
They are well know to leak like this if you did.
Or is it definately coming from a glue joint?

The ABS glue will not fail over time. If ABS glue failed in 8 month we would all have major leaks in our bathroom yearly

And you cant apply silicone to a wet surface. IMO this is just putting a bandade on the problem as opposed to fixing it.


I have 4 x 1.5" bulkheads in my tank (2 at the top for the overflow and 2 at the bottom for the closed loop) and none of my bulkheads or overflows leak. Also have miles of piping on our stock and and again none of it leaks. I do still have a couple of spa bulkheads on one of my fuges downstairs and they get salt creep no matter how much you tighten them...

[HomerJ]

Care to explain what is a "spa bulkhead"?

[lost_at_sea]

Here's my overflow setup.

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[Brent Shaver]

When gluing PVC/ABS, there is times when the glue does not do a complete seal.  This in most cases will not cause an issue due to it being away from the water seam.

Keeping this in mind this type of leak is from there being a seam that didn't get glued, as small as a hair line that wasn't completely through the whole connection.  Considering it has been 8 months and and you don't have a stain on the floor it has become a greater flow over time (ie 1 or 2 drops a minute).  This can become a greater problem over time under a pressurised system, but as you posted this is more a simple case of wear and tear from constant pounding on the breached seal.

Silicone will possibly solve your issue for a short period, but considering silicone needs a dry surface to work properly the same thing will happen again only when it does the actual issue will be larger, which will be a bigger problem.

You can use heat to melt the edge of the connection (which I have used many times in high pressure irrigation systems) then just for comfort of mind you can silicone the seam.  If you want to know more about this method please feel free to contact me and I will explain in detail.

I am sure you already know this, but should you make another overflow, make sure when you connect your connections it is important that after you push it in you make a 1/4 turn to blend the plastic and glue.

Hope this helps
Brent

[redbelly]

Where is your leak occuring in the pic exactly?

That looks like a spa bulkheads. These are one of the cheaper bulkheads on the market. They normally come with 1 rubber seal and 2 cork seals although not always. Typically they are internally threaded on the backside of the bulkhead although again not always. But they do have a MUCH higher rate of allowing a slow leak. I have used these bulkheads many times and they often get salt creep on the outside where as the higher quality bulkheads almost never get salt creep.
Try tightening it a bit more and this may stop it (if it is infact the bulkhead that is leaking).

In either case though, neither the plumbing or the bulkhead will suddenly fail and create a big flood.

Also when applying abs or pvc solvent you should coat both surfaces with solvent before you put them together and as indicated by Brent turn them a 1/4 turn.

Never tried to use heat on a joint though Brent, post that up!

[dan2x38]

You cannot seal ABS or PVC with silicone at all wet or dry. In order to fix lower the water by syphoning into a bin and replace the bulkheads. Same as do not put silicone on the gaskets it just balls up and creates a path to form a leak. Ever want to use anything on a rubber gasket use the plumers silicone lubricant which is pottable. I use that stuff on tons to rubber fittings, etc. to prevent them drying out and helps form a good seal.

[Bob P]

Seal-All will fix it.
Hardware stores/Cdn tire has it.
Small yellow tube, you can stop
wet gasoline leaks
in a fuel tank, and anything else.
Just follow instructions on the packaging.
Still a good idea to overhaul it someday.

[lost_at_sea]

Thanks all for your replies.  to be honest i'll probably just wrap some paper towl around the seam for the next while and monitor how wet it gets.

I'll slap a pipe rebuild on the winter ToDo list.

The leak is (I believe) coming from the red circle area on my connection.  The ABS is the stuff you can buy at CDN tire for cheap (didn't know there was grades of ABS junctions).  The union between the tank (overflow box) and the pipe is threaded the union up to the EndCap / airhole and the union down to the sump are not threaded and just ABS glue to create the seal.

If you look carefully you can also see SaltCreep in the top seal also (although this doesn't pose an issue of leaks thanks to our friend Newton). 

I do remember doing some turns when gluing, however perhaps not enough.  I also wonder if this is related to the fact the 1.5' tube is the semi-flexible kind.

anyways thanks again all!
Brad

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[Seven]

If you've decided just to patch it for now, try some high-friction silicon tape.  Available from Lee Valley for $16.50 (www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32183&cat=1,110,43466&ap=1).

I've used it to temporarily repair several leaks and given the minor leak you are describing, it may be a permanent solution for you.

[FocusFin]

Is the area you've indicated assessible through the top, do you have a vent.

In other words could you plug the bulkhead inside the tank for 24 hours and dry the pipe in the area of the leak so that you can attempt to seal it. It means taking your sump off-line for a day but I'm sure you could run a powerhead or two in the sump while you're waiting.

[JD]

Your semi flexible ABS is foreign to me, never come across it before.
Any time I work with flexible piping/hose, I use twice the glue as with normal rigid/rigid connections.
I will let is set up for an hour before I handle it again. I did not do this with my first rigid/flexible joints and ended with your exact scenario.
When I had a leak I tried shutting down the flow, drying the outside off as best I could and applied plumbers goop hoping for the best.
The leak returned and I ended up redoing the plumbing as required.
If you attempt a repair, do it right the first time. In the end you will spend less time and money nevermind the worries.
Good luck.

[lost_at_sea]

Thanks all,

I'm actually not the biggest fan of the semi flexible hosing, it's very hard to work with in the sump, so i'm probably going to design a rigid PVC solution with 40' bends all the way down to the sump.

Thanks!

[lost_at_sea]

Well the answer was PENDING DISASTER....

I awoke yesterday to the dreaded sound of Gushing water.... after a minor heartattack and the fastest out of bed into the living room ever since Christmas day 1993 when I got a lego deathstar!  I was semi relieved to learn we had experienced a power outage and the sound was simply the sump pumping water back up to the main display...

That being said I decided to test the drain later that evening as I was still unsure of the drain pipe and decided i've used up my nine lives.

Shutting down the pumps, with the smallest of twists and slightest of pulls the 1.5' drain popped clean out of the 90' elbow from the overflow box. After one of the biggest 'holy s#its" i've ever done I realized the disaster that could have been.

Luckily the store that sold me the piping and elbows etc was still open upon calling them and heading over for a quick chat I discovered my error, which should be shared with you all:

MORAL - be 100% sure you know what kind of piping you are dealing with.

Turns out it was semi-flex PVC pipe (not ABS) and an ABS elbow.  I had made the very rookie mistake that any black tubing was ABS, this is NOT the case.  A quick trip to HD and the purchase of some ABS/PVC glue and some PVC Primer I was off to the races.

I primer'd the crap out of the previous pipe and elbow, let it sit for 5 mins and then with the proper ABS/PVC glue the 1/5 drain is now firmly secured within the elbow.

thread level is now reduced to yellow.

[HomerJ]

Glad to hear you didn't flood anything!  Close call.

[holachicka]

wow - happy to hear you fixed it before disaster struck! And BTW your

.... after a minor heartattack and the fastest out of bed into the living room ever since Christmas day 1993 when I got a lego deathstar! 

was friggin hilarious!!!

[new2salt]

Glad to hear there was no disaster.
ABS and PVC come in a variety of colors and thicknesses - make sure of the products and grades that you are working with at all times and use the proper glues and sealants.
I also made a rookie mistake when purchasing some plumbing products.
Its not hard to do, when you are not familiar with PVC and ABS products.
Noticed the problem while dry fitting the drains - you can't mix different wall thicknesses and get a good seal.
Tried to mix sched 40 PVC with central vac PVC pipe and learned a similar lesson.
Just because it says 1 1/2 PVC - don't assume that it all fits together.
Again - glad to hear there was NO disaster
Thanks for sharing