Tang bio-trope rebuild

[Mike L]

 I'm rebuilding a Tanganyika bio-trope this weekend and was wondering what people use on the bottom of their tanks if anything to support the rock work. I am currently using light grid. I'm changing from gravel to sand and with the digging habits of the fish I don't want to have the grid exposed all the time.  Do I even need the grid.  I have always used it to diffuse the weight and avoid pressure points. I was thinking of plastic privacy lattice as an alternative as this would reduce the support from 1/2" to 3/16" allowing for less sand to keep the support covered. Also how deep with the sand as I have heard anywhere from 1-3 inches. Any help is appreciated.
Mike

[Al]

The key is depends on what fish you will be housing - ie sandsifters, open water cyprichromis, shell dwellers, rock dwellers like nigripinnis, etc. For example, if you expect to house some sand sifters, I would use the light diffuser selectively - i.e cut it to sit just under the rocks and leave the rest of the bottom without so the fishes sifting won't be impeded. If you're going to keep tropheus for example, all you need is a couple of rocks and they won't bother with the substrate too much. That brings up sand depth - I typically use 1/2" - 1" - no need to use 2-3", way too much IMO - cost wise and need wise and more potential for gas build up if you aren't vacuuming substrate regularly. If you were going to keep some featherfins, you might want to use maybe a little bit more as they will build large nests and bowers for breeding and the extra sand will be very much appreciated.

[Mike L]

 I should have stated that this rebuild is going to happen with a tank already housing the final stock. Keeping 7cyps,2m ventralis,2 brevis.3 calvus 1 each lamp. brichardi, lelupi 1 Julie. plan to add 6-7 more cyps. Picked up aragonite fine grade, used for a good price. Have about 3oo lbs limestone including large base shelf rocks and thinner ledge rocks and the setup will be  1/3 open on left and building gradually almost to surface on right sloped front to back. I like your idea of using crate under base rock as needed. Aquafinatic also suggested adding an acrylic sheet caulked into place along the whole base. Considering that but will delay the rebuild and I want to minimize the stress to the fish which will be housed in a Rubbermaid storage bin until rebuild is finished.
I think I want a bit more sand then a inch as I want to see the digging behavior so will split the difference and go 1.5 or so. It will require more maintenance but oh well.
Keep ideas coming as this is happening on Sunday. If water parameter are stable the fish will go back in Monday/Tuesday. I plan to remove and keep about 70 - 80% water from existing set-up into temp tank and 2 other bins and plan on having the rock and all but 30 gallons in temp tank back in by end of day Sunday so the bacteria on the existing rock stays healthy My Eheim and heater will run in temp tank.  Expecting/hoping all these steps will minimize bacteria loss. 

[Al]

Sounds like things are under control. 1.5" sounds great, good depth - but you mention digging - none of the fish on your list are particularly known for digging. The ventralis would dig a pit for breeding but with 2M that ain't gonna happen and you need to keep your eye on them with aggression. Ventralis also  like to rule the tank so I don't know how they will adapt in the longer term with 12-14 cyps buzzing around. You didn't say what size the tank is - but with 7 cyps and expecting to add 6-7 more (good move) I would leave more open space mid to upper levels - especially if they are jumbos. You don't really need rock up to the top with the list of fish you have and if you want that, minimize it to keep 2/3 open  - just my .02. Your cyps and ventralis want open water, brevis a shell area - the calvus would be happiest with some large shells (like conch size) and the rockwork would probably be used the most by the leleupi and juli as they slink around and they don't need the height, just lower caves and nooks and crannies and you don't need real big rocks for the size of nooks and crannies that they need/enjoy.
Good luck but you don't need luck you seem to have everything in order.
Tank should look great.
Enjoy.

[Mike L]

 Thanks Al
The tank is 75 gallon.All the fish where bought as adult and have been together for over a year. They all went in over a 1 week span.  I also have a calvus breeder tank with sand in it. They are constantly moving the sand around. My lelupi in the 75 is constantly moving the gravel to make his home as well. And as for the ventralis the only fish they bother with is each other with each having 1 side of the tank. Maybe I'm just lucky so far.

I am thinking your right about the rockwork. I went and bought several large limestone ledge rocks at Canlock yesterday in an attempt to give some scale to the tank. I find that the smaller rocks I have been using are dwarfed by the fish.
Also about 8-9 weels ago I bought several plants to add to the tanks I have. In the breeder as a ways to separate and in the community to help control nitrates. While plants are not common in cichlid tanks I have been amazed at the calming effect it has had on both tanks. They will be part of the tank in the new build at least for the time being. I will post some pictures when all is completed and settled in.
BTW what do you keep
Mike out

[Al]

Mike,
I do think you have been lucky so far with all those fish in a 75 but hey, if it's working, good on you. Sometimes a species of fish is reputed to be "bad" and in a certain tank and set-up they are OK, it happens. Should you add the extra cyps to make a larger colony, you'll see some more natural behavior - in the wild they are in huge colonies as you probably know. Good to hear about the ventralis - but to really see their behavior (and the jostling) you would need 5-6 females to keep the boys lit up. Be great to see some pics. Its always exciting doing a new set-up.
What type of cyps/ventralis are you keeping
Re: what am I keeping - Currently I am housing congo fish and west Africans in a couple of large tanks - heterochromis multidens 2/1, 3 tylochromis lateralis with 3 synodontis pardalis and 8 synodontis flavitaeniata - looking for some raiamas christyi to fill out the tank - I tried some smaller yellow tail alesto caudalis but they got snacked pretty quickly. In my other show tank I am keeping coptodon guineensis and pelmatochromis buettikofferi and am looking for some catfish right now to fit the biotope, which I think I have found state side.
I kept tanganyikans for about 15+ years up until a couple of years back when it was time for a change. I miss a lot of the different tangs I kept and their unique behaviours - they will always be a favourite fish of mine. The last 4 years or so I kept exclusively petrochromis and after 4 years, I was tired of babysitting fish - their aggressive behavior demands constant vigilance and even then sometimes that isn't enough. But when things are good, they are truly awesome fish with REAL personality - jeyyll and hyde. But it was pretty stressful at times when I had to have 5-6 quarantine tanks for beaten up fish, etc and then once healed, trying to get them back into tanks - and petros aren't cheap fish. I miss them but then I don't.
Al

[Mike L]

 Update

Started teardown at 10ish Sunday. Removed all fish and rocks. Removed gravel, cleaned and stored. added 5.5" to stand as I built original for viewing when sitting on couch. Wife felt with new location that some additional height would be good. Happy wife ,happy life. Installed base rocks using egg crate under rock only. Filled with aragonite built rest of rockwork, planted and filled with 20% new water and 40% saved water. Got filter and 1 heater back up and running on tank. Tested and adjusted water parameters/temp to match holding tank. Transferred water from tank to holding tank and back over a 1-11/2 hour period. Transferred fish in and filled with remaining 40% water. Replaced filtered power heads and second heater, covers, lights and done. Cleanup so everything is back to normal. By now 10:30 in the evening with only a stop for dinner. Tested parameters this morning. Ph 8.4, ammonia 0, nitrites o, nitrates 20ppm Temp 78f. Just have to paint new risers and good to go.
I'm really happy with the new substrate and am looking forward to the benefits of aragonite over gravel. I also like the lighter colour over the brown pebble river stone that I've been using for 18 years. Just have to figure out what to do with the gravel. There needs to be some tweaking of the layout on 1 side as the old rock is not in scale with the new larger rocks. I want to leave them in for the time being for there bacteria and to minimize stress.
I enjoyed doing the work but it was a long day. Thanks for all the input Al, Stuart, and Aquaticfinatic ( Dave @Got Fish ). It was good to bounce ideas and know you are doing the right things. It helped reduce stress considerably

[Mike L]

 Here are some pics of the new tank set-up

[exv152]

Very nice setup, what kind of lighting are you using?

[Mike L]

 I have 3 light's on timers. 48"Marineland double bright led set to night goes on at 2:15 pm followed by 36" aquatic life actinic led (salt light) that goes on at 2:45, 48" fluorescent with 18,000K bulb at 3:30. When I get home around 5 I switch the Marineland to full on. 9:15 fluorescent goes off. When I go to bed or 11:00 whichever comes first switch the marineland back to night, actinic goes off at 11:30 followed by marineland at 12:00.

I picked up the actinic at Big Al's boxing week sale last year for $89.00, 40% off. This light is sweet and the best light purchase I have ever made. The colours of the fish and plant's absolutely pop. The neat thing about the actinic is that it changes all the emitted light to a pure white.

The picture's that I posted were taken before the marineland was full on but all others running.
Mike

[Mike L]

 Well thought I would give an update on the tank rebuild. For the most part all is going fine and in fact my water parameters have never been better. I'm glad to have gotten rid of the gravel and would recommend nothing else but sand for an African cichlid tank.
At the same time as doing all the changes I also added a different bio ball product to my filter. It's called marine pure by Cermedia and has never been available in Ottawa until recently. Each bioball claims to have 240sq/ft of surface and with the 38 balls I added it gives me 8800 sq/ft of surface area.  I have been keeping a weekly record of all the water parameters and will post results when I have a 4- 6 month data stream.

Al you where right about the tank inhabitants. I don't know if it is the improved water but my Ventaralis while looking great have become unsustainable in the tank. In fact recently one killed the other over a weekend while I was away. I arrived back in time to see the harassment, removed the damaged guy but too late as he died in a quarantine tank 3 days later. The remaining one then started harassing the cyps and has since been put in isolation in a 20 gallon long until I can sell him. Regret to see him go but lesson learned.
That's it for now.

[Al]

Mike,
How is the tank coming along since the removal of the ventralis? Were you ever able to get a hold of Anthony at SI Cichlids and find any more cyps, that would have been a great find - Anthony would have originally got some of these from Mark Warmington. You're probably a little bummed about removing the ventralis as they are a beautiful fish, especially the males when they are lit up -  but as you know that's the reality of fishkeeping and why so many of us always want "one more tank" for that group of fish we always wanted but can't quite fit into our present setups :<)
Al

[Mike L]

Hey Al
No luck with Anthony and Mark even contacted him on my behalf. your right about being bummed about the  the Ventralis. He was fine in the tank for about a year as I said but he was terrorizing the other inhabitants but now the tank is calmed down and all the remaining inhabitants are showing much better. He has gone to a good home with a fellow Tanganyikin keeper. I am so happy with that as I was left with Big Al's to trade him to. Peter is thrilled with him and I feel better knowing that he is with someone who appreciates him and will properly look after it.
As for tanks and fish space I've just set up a 3rd one and started assembling the gear for a fourth. The problem for me is I live in a small home and am running out of Places to put them. My wife just rolls her eyes. 
Mike out