Howdy all!!

[Eagle_Eye]

Just wanted to post a Hello msg!

I joined to take a look at new stuff leanr new stuff
and also enjoy new stuff!

Shall be asking a ton of questions reguarding setup's
and aquatic living quarters for fish species. :lol:


Curently setup a site of some werk i have accomplished so far.

http://workatsympatico.dyndns.org/aquarium

shall be taking more pictures as i progress thrue modification
and also adding new species.

As you can see with the pics my setup is:

a 29 gallong tank from walmart (cheap) best 150$ i have spent so far!

Running on their stand that needed to be moded to fit the tank successfully. (pine baord aquiered from home depot) was needed to extend the tank to fit to purrfection.

Undergravel setup with filstar X2 canister filter.
(yet find that there might not be enough water flow?)
Is there a way i can add a more powerfull pump?

If you are a person who can spot the setup sucessfully you can see that there is a mirror 7 and 1/2 inch away from the back of the tank, to give it an optical illusion that the tank is massive in size!
Will also make it look like i have twice the number of fich in the tank lol.

So far i'm happy with my setup.

Things still needed to be done:

I need to get more gravel.
Thinking of upgrading the standard filter to a magnum 350 pro canister. (with gravel vacume)
Upgrading the light system to a dual 18 inch t8 connector.
setting up a bulb for flowering and a bulb for groth, for a fuller spectrum.
(still need to find makes/models)

Sticking with fresh water for now.

current fish in tank (just for inital enviroment setup)

1 plain ordinary pleco
4 tetra neons
and 2 adult guppies
about 25 babie guppies.
1 ghost shrimp


In the process of aquiering a 15 gallon, to move theese to the smaller tank.

Thinking of replacing with:
1 vapire pleco/aka galaxian pleco
2-3 discus's
2-3 clown loaches
2-3 gouramies

defenetivley going to be looking for diffrent plant life.
(that can be suited for undergravel filtration)

so what you guy's think? too mutch? not enough?
any tips?

Thanks!!

[ambushman2j]

my only comments would be that, imo I think a mag 350 pro system would be overkill on a 29 gallon tank, and a 29 would be too small for discus

[luvfishies]

Hi there Eagle-Eye and welcome! As a non-fan of Undergravel filtration, I would recommend removing it while you can, and relying on the Filstar, as the cannister is more than enough filtration for a 29g tank. Just my opinion!

If you're wanting more current, I would go with a small powerhead, which will also come in handy down the road if you add more lights, and thus need to inject CO2 for the plants.

I agree with ambushman, 29g is far too small for discus, as they are a shoaling fish when young, and really do better in groups of 5+. As it's also recommended to have 10g per discus, that means a 55g tank minimum. Growing large discus requires lots of waterchanges (think daily as optimum - 2-3 times weekly MINIMUM), lots of food, and scrupulous tank care.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not the best for the fish.

I also wouldn't recommend clown loaches for anything smaller than a 55g tank, as they need to be in groups as well, and get large, even though they are slow growers.

[Eagle_Eye]

Thank you for the reply guy's and gal's!

I really value you're opignions cause i do concider you guys as proffesional's in the field of aquatic vertabrates.

you are maybe right about the discus looks like alot of werk just for a small tank.

Yet for the loaches i was really wanting to have a few smallies he he cause by my understandingif you get them small they don't grow as fast in a smaller tank and if i do notice they do get to big coudn't i just go to an aquarium place to exchange the biggies for smallies?

I have noticed stores/web sites selll smaller fish cheaper then full grown ones.

Really wanted them for groth controle against snalis.

So if you really sugest against the clown loaches what is the next spies you find suited to take care of snail controle?

Personnaly gona keep the undergravel filter for now testing the setup..

I had a theory that what ever the stuff falling on the gravel either food or waste would break down and suck thrue the gravel (like a vacume) and go into the fils star canister.

Other theory i have is the less you touch the water the less the fish get stressed. So by having 3 types of filtration i was hoping
to keep doing water changes approxamatly 3/4 of the water
once every month to month and 1/2.

Are my thoeries blown out of the water??

[saltydog]

In general, I would plan on no more than 50% water changes unless you keep African cichlids. Otherwise, the PH swing may harm some of your fish as you are likely replacing water with a PH of 6.5 or less with water with a PH of 8.0 or more.

My guess is that your desire to run an undergravel filter is based on it having been included with your tank. In any case,
unless it is operating in reverse by means of powerheads, an undergravel filter sucks wastes into the gravel where it stays. The only way any of these wastes will eventually make it to your canister filter is in the form of polluted water which I think you are trying to avoid.

If you want to avoid water changes, then try vacuuming wastes from the gravel by means of a Python and/or changing the media in your canister (or other filters) more often. While undergravel filters can aid in clarifying the water, it seems to me that they guarantee that wastes remain in your tank over the long term. Clear water is appreciated by aquarists but the fish are more affected by the water quality, which is not synonymous. Contrary to what may seem logical, plants do not  benefit from undergravel filters either.

Of course, undegravel filtration is better than no filtration at all since it circulates water to dentrifying bacteria which take up residence in the gravel & control ammonia & nitrite. Undergravel filters should be cleaned out on occasion. This involves a total tear-down of the tank.

[luvfishies]

Hey Eagle, thanks for not getting the discus.

what I want to address here is that no matter how much filtration you have, you will still get nitrATES accumulating, as well as dissolved organics, which only waterchanges will remove. Live plants will use nitrATES, but the other things that we can't test for need removing via waterchanges. There is no way around this!

Also, dissolved organics and nitrATES can stunt the growth of the fish, which leads to the oh-so-common myth that fish only grow to the size of the tank. That is NOT TRUE. The fish will still grow internally, but the outside won't, which leads to shortened lifespan and possible health issues.

If you're wanting some snail control, you could do 3 YoYo (pakistani) Loaches, or Sidthimunkis (Monkey Loaches). Check out www.loaches.com for loach info. YoYos and Clowns do grow quick up to about 3-4", and the Clowns slow down after that, but still deserve to have at least a 4' tank to roam.

Vacuuming the substrate is also a good idea, as ANY waste will eventually be converted to nitrATE due to the nitrogen cycle. Rinsing the filter media in "used" tankwater is also a good idea, as the goop that accumulates in a filter also breaks down into nitrATEs. To conserve your biobugs, do not rinse in chlorinated water, or water that is either too hot or too cold.

Here is an article I wrote for another forum on the Cycle Process. Excuse the simplistic language, as I was trying to keep it simple for all levels of hobbyists:

Cycling a tank is basically this:
Fish give off ammonia, thru respiration. Decaying food and solid poo also decompose into ammonia. Ammonia is deadly to fish in small amounts. Bacteria #1 are attracted to the ammonia, and start eating it. They give off nitrITE which is also toxic at low levels. Bacteria #2 then come along and eat the nitrite, giving off nitrATE. NitrATE is not nearly as toxic as the ammonia and nitrITE, but it does accumulate, and needs to be removed via those partial waterchanges we do every week.

Now, these little bacterias need a place to live. While they will gladly live on solid surfaces in the tank (rocks, decorations, etc), their preferred home is in moving water with lots of Oxygen. That would be the filter in a fishtank.

These little bacteria are the reason you very very very rarely ever completely dismantle and "clean" the decor in an established tank. They are also the reason we advise to NOT throw out the filter stuff, but to rather rinse the floss or foam in "used" tankwater that you've removed when doing maintenance (partial water change). Hot, Cold, Chlorine and some medications can and will kill off our friendy bacteria. We need to treat them with some care if we want the fishies to be happy and healthy.

So that's the short and sweet version of what goes on. There are a few ways to make this happen in a new tank, from adding ammonia from a bottle (NO FISH!!!) to adding a couple of hardy fish and testing like mad and changing water when needed - ie the ammonia and/or nitrITES get over 0.5-1.0 ppm

There is also a new product out by Marineland, called BioSpira, which adds the necessary bacteria right from the beginning.

IMO all other "bacteria in a bottle" are a waste of money, so you don't need them. Spend the money on tests for ammonia, nitrITES, nitrATES and pH, instead.


RED denotes a very toxic substance. Keep the level below 1.0ppm  in a new, cycling tank.

GREEN denotes a less toxic, but still problematic substance. Keep the level below 20 ppm for most fish.

[Eagle_Eye]

Woot thatnks a nunch for the reply's boyz'n gals!

those yoyo loaches look really neat!!
Looked at a few sites and they can grow up to 4 inches!!
Were the clowns grew to 12 inches.

thanks for giving me a heads up ahead of time on that!!
Guess i really got attracted to their colours...

yet wondering if there is some type of guyger couter for measuring nitrate levels/amonia?

Approx how mutch are they?

And what would be approprite nitrate levels and amonia?
I gather you must have a certain minimal amout?
(with out stripping ph levels too mutch)

I prefer to stay away from chemicles as mutch as possible to raise and drop ph levels due to their acidic values and possible harm. (it's not like hydroponics in any way shape or form were you can controle every thing on regular changes.


Now the question is...

Were is the best place in ottawa to get fish?
local petstores i have notice you have to be very carull on what you are getting making sure there is no deseases.

1 place i went to got a fungui and it did kill some of my fish very rapidaly and don't want this to ever happen again, my fish are precious to me..

That's why i'm concidering on purchasing more expensive/exotic fish for my tank!

so far yoyo and a few gouramies with a vampire pleco.
any ides on what looks nice (bright in colours)
no price limit yet has to be fresh water not brackish or
salt.

Salt seems to be way to complicated for now..
with the skimmers and all that constant monitoring ugh...
besides 29 gallon too small. Keep in mind i'm not an expert lol.

thanks for the help!!

[luvfishies]

Eagle, there are kits available to test the nitrATE, which should be kept under 20 ppm for optimum fish health and growth.

As for Ammonia, once the tank has cycled, it should never read anything other than "0". Same for nitrITEs.

Also, waterchanges aren't stressful for fish! Mine all love to get clean water each week, and they are far more active after a waterchange!

[saltydog]

Careful! Large-scale water changes are stressful on some types of fish depending on the PH swing involved. I once killed 5 adult Tin-Foil Barbs (60 inches of fish!) with a 100% water change. Care was exercised to dechlorinate & to match water temperature. Fish stressed by PH shock will show signs of heavy, laboured breathing for many hours & may lose their appetites for several days.

[Eagle_Eye]

Woot got a few more babies!!
so i updated the site a little he he he
http://workatsympatico.dyndns.org/aquarium