Substrate won’t hold plants!

[Tamaradebra]

I'm using substrate for the first time (Fluval brand "for plants and shrimp").. Searched the web about anchoring plants. Still want to know how to manipulate the substrate since I keep needing to rearrange and relecture the plants - which clouds the tank for at least a full day. What have I gotten myself into?!      hearing that a Fluval substrate is overrated and not good, dirt is better, use black gravel on top of the substrate, anchor with shells, it all feels overwhelming and insurmountable. Why oh why didn't I do more research about substrate?!?! HELP!

[Kalemh]

Fluval stratum is an amazing substrate from my experience. Its most likely to do with plant preparation before planting. I would recommend if they are a stem to remove the bottom couple pairs of leaves and this will allow for them to be held into the substrate better. And for plants with long roots like crypts to cut the roots rather short between 2 and 3 inches this will also promote new growth. Just be patient with your plants your gunna have some float up just keep replanting them

[charlie]

How deep is your substrate bed?
Which plants are not holding?
Fluval tends to be a bit lighter than most other soil substrates and at times can pose a bit of problems planting when new.

[Tamaradebra]

Hi and thanks for your reply! It's about 1.5 inches deep - but it lighter than air. There must be something I am doing wrong. I guess I shouldn't say the plants aren't holding at all, they are In There, but not where I want them and the stems won't stay together. As soon as I go in to do some water changes the slightest tapmoves the stem and replanting disturbs the substrate.  Very frustrating. I'd really like to anchor them somehow at least for a while. Thanks for the tip about trimming roots though, that will help with one of my mature plants.

[wolfiewill]

I agree with Kalemn in that Fluval Stratum is one of... if not the best substrate available. But, you need more than 1.5 inches!!! I would never consider planting in less than three. There are also ways to ensure that they stay planted: One - add a one inch layer of a dense substrate like Flourite or coarse sand (black in your case) below the Fluval Stratum; Two - layer 2 inches of the Stratum on top of this base layer; And three - stop playing around with the plant positions until they have a chance to root into the base layer.

Many years ago, I had the frustrating experience of having my full carpet of Liliopsis braziliensis float one morning. It pulled the whole root mass and substrate to the surface. I was thrilled with the plant and the look until then. Since then I always use this method. I use one of the Seachem crushed clay products as a base layer. The 'original' and the 'brown' or 'red' are coarse enough to allow reasonable circulation of gases and nutrients throughout, and provide the roots with a considerable amount of iron (which some plants appreciate more at the root level). But beware of the fine grain products - they don't allow enough circulation to the roots and many plants won't do well, especially the root feeders. I believe the problem is a lack of oxygen for the roots to function properly.

And finally, don't get these types of substrates mixed up with dirt. The ADA products and Fluval Stratum shouldn't need to be covered with anything, especially a denser material. Dirted tanks are far worse for clouding up. Even if they are capped with something. Perhaps charlie or Gilbotron can weigh in on this 'cause they have more experience with dirt and non-dirt tanks than do I.

[matttimms49]

This is all great information thanks everyone.

I do have to say that when I started out with plants I struggled to get plants to stay in the substrate as well so I feel your pain! The amount of times I would snap the stems of plants or break the roots off when trying to plant is way to high for me to say haha but try and keep at it. The rewards of a planted tank are really satisfying.

I agree with Kalems point though, just try and be patient and re plant the stems when they pop up.

[Gilbotron]

Yup - these are the same pains we all went through first getting into planted tanks. In my early days I used to come home from work every night and have to replant the entire tank because my fish had knocked everything out and all my plants would be floating... Still happens with new plants, especially with new tanks, or tanks with larger fish. Patience and persistence is the key. But thats the joy of having a planted tank - you have an excuse to put your hands in there almost every day!!!

What you're using for substrate I would call it an Aqua Soil and its a great choice - you will be very pleased with it over time.  When you first put it in, it will be VERY light for quite some time. Over time it will get a little denser and become easier to work with. In the meantime there are a couple things you can do that might help (in addition to what others have suggested)...
1. Keep some small rocks handy (river rock or lava rock) and add little piles around the base of newly planted stems to add a bit of weight on the substrate. Then just remove the rocks a few weeks later when the plant has rooted.
2. Use plant weights (lead bands you can wrap - usually come with purchased plants or you can buy them). Try to wrap it above the substrate so its just weighing down the plant, and you can remove it a few weeks later. I don't recommend burying them, as the stem usually rots where its wrapped, then your plant will just end up floating later when that has happened and it breaks off.
3. For stem plants try not to put the stem straight down. Try to hook or put the stem in at an angle.  If using planting tongs/tweezers grab at the bottom of the stem, go straight down, then pull/jiggle sideways a bit.  Don't worry if the plant is crooked - it will straighten itself out in no time. 
4. When you get the plant in, push a little extra substrate around its base, and try to press down on it a bit to try and pack it in (gently).

Dirt is a different thing altogether (i.e. potting soil) and not what you are using. Very easy to plant in because its like mud, however it comes with a different set of challenges such as the mess it makes when pulling plants, as well as how it tints the water. If this is something that interests you, PM me and I can give you all the gory details. 

[Tamaradebra]

Thank you all so much! For some reason I never received an email notice of all these replies so I am just reading them now. Maybe unfortunately, one suggestion I received at Critter Jungle was to put a gravel cap on top of the stratum, so I bought some regular black gravel. Now I wish I could go back to just stratum so I could try all these great suggestions. How does one start over with a tank full of fish and plants already? I almost want to go in and pick out all the gravel now. It's black so not too noticeable but anyhow...I am indeed trying to pull through this frustrating phase! It's been a few months since I moved on from the ten gallon with a sunken ship and castle (courtesy of my four year old). Then I changed from a 38 gal bow front to the new 32 gal Fluval Flex, which is amazing in many respects. And much easier to reach the bottom. Thanks again to all of you for these replies, I really "feel the love" from the OVAS community. Happy Spring everyone!

[wolfiewill]

How does one start over with a tank full of fish and plants already? I almost want to go in and pick out all the gravel now.

Perhaps some perspective will help: Last winter I had to replace all the substrate in a fully planted 330 gallon aquarium. I had no choice. It took 10 full days of solid work to remove everything, replace the substrate and put everything back again. My back aches again just writing this post!