The Mission: Breed the Cuckoo Cat!

[darkdep]

My next "big" fishkeeping goal is to breed the Cuckoo Catfish, Synodontis Multipunctatus.  It's taken me a while to assemble a good number of these, what with cheap ones going for $30 each and seeing them for as much as $69 each in stores.

For those that are not aware, Cuckoo Cats have a rather unique breeding mechanism.  They sit and wait until a pair of cichlids mate, and then they run in, eating as many of the Cichlid eggs as they can, and dropping their own so that the Cichlids actually mouthbrood them.  After only about 4 days the catfish eggs hatch in the cichlid's mouth and start to devour the other cichlid eggs and, often, each other.  The cichlid mother is usually oblivious to this and cares for the Syno babies as if they were her own.

In order to achieve this goal I've assembled the following tank.  75gallon filtered with a Magnum 350, water changes every 3 days, with supplements of Baking Soda, Salt, and Epsom Salt added to each water change.  The hosts are a 1m3f breeding group of large (7") Protomelas Spilonotus.  I purchased this group from the recent Spencer Jack group order specifically because they are supposedly very frequent breeders with large broods.  I needed a fish with a large mouth and that breeds regularly.  These fish are also very peaceful towards other inhabitants, which will be a useful trait when another fish starts stealing eggs

For the cats, I have a group of 6 Synodontis Multipunctatus, all wild, all 3.5"-4.0" (except one 5 incher). 

Been feeding Omni-Pro formula so as to hopefully bump up roe production.  Tonight I fed some fresh shrimp I picked up at that crazy new Superstore on Eagleson (OMG that place is nuts). 

We may have a yellow alert here...I just went down and one of the Spilonotis females is holding!!!  I sat and watched for a while and the Cats were all swimming like mad beneath the pair.  I didn't witness any egg drops but the Syno's were definetly interested.  Although I doubt I'll get any results this quick, my fingers are crossed.

Because of the quick hatching time of the Synos, I'm only going to wait about 4 days and then strip the female into a DIY egg tumbler (thanks Bitterman for the links!) and hope for the best.  Worst comes to worse I should at least get a breeding of my Spilonotus early, but that's just a side benefit of my real goal.

Anyone else on here ever bred Multipunctatus?  If so, do you have any tips to pass on or ideas of things I'm doing wrong?  I REALLY want to pull this off.

Oh, BTW, for those that were here when I got the Spilonotus and there were eggs in the bag, they got eaten.  This isn't that batch. 

[RoxyDog]

good luck APW!   

[babblefish1960]

You sir are a mad scientist, with just of touch of Boris and Natasha in you, poor sacrificial host fish, however, if the experiment works, it should prove interesting especially if you could document it photographically.

Good luck with that, and keep us apprised of the progression, perhaps there will be something to see at the fish wall party.

[Woody]

I use to breed Synodontis Multipunctatus years ago, and produce good numbers of them. I found that after witnessing the spawning I would wait a week and then strip the holding female. By this time the synodontis have hatched but have not started eating the cichlid eggs.
The Synodontis can be easily raised on newly hatched brine shrimp and grow rapidly and you get some cichlid fry, and or eggs at the same time that you can use you tumbler for.
I did some trial and error and found that if I strip after a week, I get fry of both species and that I also get more synodontis fry as they do not prey on each other.
Breed them as they are not as plentiful as they use to be.

Woody

[new2H2O]

dont want to jack just looking to get the DIY tumbler link!!!

[bitterman]

dont want to jack just looking to get the DIY tumbler link!!!

Information sent in Pm such not to highjack the thread.

I also posted a new thread with some pics of the setup for those  that are curious.

Bruce

[PaleoFishGirl]

So, APW, how is this going? Updates? Progress? Inquiring minds wanna know!

[darkdep]

Well, I have no holding happening yet.  I have been feeding a steady diet of mysis shrimp in an attempt to help both the multies and the host Spilonotus' grow more eggs.  The Multipunctatus are all becoming very comfortable, it's really amazing how their behaviour changes when they are in a group.  When I had only one, he pretty much hid all the time; with two the little one just followed the big one everywhere, and now with the 6 I have they are a little family that are comfortable swimming out in the open together.

The Spilonotus have not bred yet, and I suspect the tank isn't "right" yet; I am going to swap out the current filtration (Magnum 350) with something more aggressive (Rena XP3 with an AC 110), and rework the rocks and add some plants.  I'm also getting 4 more Multipunctatus on Nov 4, bringing the colony up to 10.

I'll get all this done and will leave everything for a couple weeks to see if any results.  If not, I will then try leaving the lights off on the tank, hoping it might spark something.  I've also begun Malawi-conditioning the water.

If nothing else, I sure am enjoying the tank.  The Spilonotus are the biggest fish I've ever kept, plus I just LOVE the group of Multies.  Worth every penny I paid for all of them, and then some.  It's a shame they're so individually expensive; they really are best in a large group.

[bitterman]

APW,

How big are you Cuckoo Cats?

Bruce

[darkdep]

My biggest is over 5 inches; the other 5 are smaller (3-4").  The ones I'm getting Saturday are only a couple inch in size, they need to grow.

I'm not 100% sure (sources differ on this) but I think many of them still may be too young to breed.  But since they are cuckoo spawners, I have to focus on getting the hosts to breed first

[bitterman]

My biggest is over 5 inches; the other 5 are smaller (3-4").  The ones I'm getting Saturday are only a couple inch in size, they need to grow.

I'm not 100% sure (sources differ on this) but I think many of them still may be too young to breed.  But since they are cuckoo spawners, I have to focus on getting the hosts to breed first

Very interesting. I just ordered 6 F1's that will end up in my 172 with the frontosa, Calvus and yellow labs.. Manybe the yelllow labs will act as a host for them once the cuckoos grow since they will only be 1-1.5"

Bruce

[darkdep]

Possibly.  I've been told that the optimal hosts are large mouthed cichlids that have large broods; apparantly Victorian cichlids are the best.

[bitterman]

So Frontosa will do then eh? When they get older, I'll just have to strip the eggs at about 1 week and tumble the frontosa eggs and cuckoos separately.

[darkdep]

Yep, 1 week seems to be the best stripping time from all the info I've read, and you seperate the cuckoo's as you see them.  You need to try to seperate them from each other as well.

[Sue]

So Frontosa will do then eh? When they get older, I'll just have to strip the eggs at about 1 week and tumble the frontosa eggs and cuckoos separately.

I used to breed fronts. Maybe I'm just being biased, since I like their personality, but I can't picture them being a good host for a catfish project.  I think you'd want fish that breed no matter what, and are more prolific. The fronts might not breed with catfish bothering them night and day.

[bitterman]

I'm not really worring about the fronts or the cuckoo cats breeding. In fact both are way too young (I'll have to wait for about 1-2 years before the fronts are old enough). I just want something else for my tank and the cats seam to fit the ticket. Once the fronts get breeding I may sell the cuckoo cats, but for now I will enjoy the activity in my 172 gallon tank.

I really like my fronts, just growing them out as they wer about 1-1.25" April 1, 2006. The biggest is 3.5-4" now.

Bruce

[darkdep]

UPDATE:

I've been feeding lots of protein to the tank; lots of ocean plankton and Omni-Pro formula.  I have 10 multipunctatus in the tank now with the 4 Spilonotus (and one cobalt blue who is recovering from a beating).  4 of the Multies are little tiny guys I got from the recent Toronto group order, so they don't really factor in (holy crap they are cute tho!)

As of Last night, one of the Spilonotus females is HOLDING!!  I did not witness the spawning but as my wife checked the tank earlier in the day (and swears no-one was holding in the afternoon) I can pretty much guarantee I only missed it by a few hours at most. 

So, the plan is to strip the female on the evening of the 23rd (7 days).  If everything I read and have been told is correct, I should get the cichlid eggs and some hatched Multipunctatus fry (assuming they participated in the spawning).  I will seperate any multipunctatus fry that I find into a breeding net in an empty 10gal, and will tumble the eggs using a design brought to my attention by bitterman (Thanks Bruce!).  If I get even one multipunctatus I'll call it a success, and hopefully I'll even get the pleasure of a batch of new Spilonotus fry as well (a species I haven't bred before).  Two for one!

Will update next week.

[bitterman]

Godd luck APW... I've been reading alot on this and some people are report he syno eggs hatch in 3-4 days and others 7 so you may only end up with synos (If they got into the action and hatch in 3-4 days)

Let us know how things are going once yuou strip... This is so interesting!!!!!

[darkdep]

I'm going to go with Woody's advice on the 7 day strip.  Since the real goal is to breed the Multies, I can live with losing some of the Spilonotus eggs (i.e if they do eat a couple that's ok with me; it means they will be a bit stronger when I strip).

I'm a little concerned about how I'll "handle" the little guys once I strip...will probably strip directly into the colander and will then need a safe way to pick up the synos...

[RoxyDog]

Crossing my fingers for ya APW, I want MORE!