What is the best clean up crew for a Cichlid tank?

[Jason]

I need to know what the best combo would be to keep this tank more or less clean. It's a 135g Malawi tank that currently houses about 15 - 20 fish (working on restocking it). It has a sand substrate with lots of rocks a few pieces of driftwood and a couple plants (sword and some val) it has a Rena XP3 and a Fluval 404 running with two power heads to keep the water moving. Now I'm finding that because of the position of the tank there are two windows that shine directly on it during the day so it's causing more algae growth than I'd like. The three SAE's that were previously keeping the tank very clean have gotten fat and lazy and don't do much anymore. I need a new clean up crew, as I don't want to clean the glass every couple of days.

What I don't want are any loaches or plecos. Loaches because I have stocked the tank with MTS in order to keep the sand moving and don't want them to make a feast of them. As for the pleco, I'm just not that fond of them as I have yet to find one that appeals to me and that doesn't mess up the aquascaping with its sudden spasms and tail whips.

What I would like to know is what would be acceptable in this tank. Perhaps a school of Corie's as they should do a good job of keeping the sand clean but not sure how they would do in a Cichlid tank not to mention that they wouldn't do much for the algae problem. Perhaps I just need to add some more SAE's or CAE's to the mix? What about snails?? I don't want to be over run but what are the best snails to eat algae but not the plants and that would not over populate the tank.

One last question I had was whether a couple Kuhli loaches would survive in a Cichlid tank? Not this tank but I was just curious.

Anyway any advise/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

[darkdep]

I know you don't want to hear it, but BN plecos have kept every african tank I've ever put them in as clean as a whistle.  I'm planning on stocking every one of my tanks with several of them.  They don't grow large, hide most of the time (if you don't like the look of them), and are well armoured to defend themselves against the cichlids.

Bar none, the best thing I've ever used for this purpose.  One of my tanks I've literally NEVER cleaned.

I don't thing cories would survive the cichlids agression...

It's a shame you have the sunlight hitting the tank tho; that is gonna be a bit of a constant hassle.

[kennyman]

I added  one young BN pleco a couple of weeks ago to my 55 mbuna tank and notice the difference. He doesnt come out much during the day and there is certainly nothing he can do destructive wise that a 1/2 grown male mbuna wont. At least he isn't digging 8" dia holes in the substrate right down to the glass 

[Jason]

DD: How big would a BN pleco get?

For a 135 gallon would I be best to get two or would one suffice?

I don't particularly like the look but at this point if its a question of cleaning the glass every couple of days or dropping a couple plecos in I'll go with the plecos.


Kennyman: Surprisingly my mbuna's are very peaceful and there is very little aggression in the tank they don't even touch the plants. Could be because it's understocked right now so they have plenty of territory to cover. As far as the digging goes I find with the sand substrate whatever they dig in the open area is quickly covered over with the current so they keep their digging primarily behind and under rocks.

[darkdep]

Aggression changes over time with some fish; they are capable of it so it helps to ensure the cleanup crew can protect themselves.

BN's stay very small, I think 4".  Certainly the first one I ever got is still smaller than this.  BTW don't explicitly feed them; let them live off the algae and any scraps of food your cichlids don't eat.  They will be fine. 

For a 135?  I'd use at least 4 to be honest, and maybe 6 if you have bad algae issues.  The downside to their small size is you need more.  I have 2 in a 40gal and they keep it spotless.

[RoxyDog]

yeah, no cories...

I use zebra nerite snails in my 77gal, and will be adding 1 bn soon as he's big enough.  I'm not a big pleco fan either. The snails do a great job, but I have to still clean the glass sometimes b/c their little mouths can't get all of it.  There's cute little snail teeth designs left behind.    They're very pretty and aren't bothered by my africans at all though.

[blizzack1]

yeah, no cories...

I use zebra nerite snails in my 77gal, and will be adding 1 bn soon as he's big enough.  I'm not a big pleco fan either. The snails do a great job, but I have to still clean the glass sometimes b/c their little mouths can't get all of it.  There's cute little snail teeth designs left behind.    They're very pretty and aren't bothered by my africans at all though.

My yellow labs ate my apple snail! 

As for the pleco - I bought a BN to eat the algea on my glass.  He didn't touch the glass, but he kept the rest of the rocks spotless.

I found that I kind of missed the look of the algea on the rocks (and the fish liked eating it), so I'm going with three clown loaches right now to pick up the scraps.  I haven't added the Africans yet, but I hope it works...

[darkdep]

I still want to try Nerites.  Pond Snails don't last long, MTS aren't for glass, and Apples will get picked on eventually.  I think the nerites might as well Jenn, I don't think your fish are big enough to be bullies yet

BN Plecos...I can't recommend them enough.  If you're looking for some, mglillie is coming up from Toronto on Nov 4 and has a whack for $3 each.

[Jason]

OK well I just went and bought a mag float in the mead time as the ol "pad on a stick" thing was very awkward to clean the glass and I can't rely on the SAE's

Do the zebra nerite snails repopulate quickly? Am I going to be overrun in a matter of weeks/months? How big do they get?

I think I will start with 4 BN plecos for now and see how they do. I still like to have some variety though in case one stops working like the SAE's have.

Also would the high current bother the BN's? Most of the mbuna save one love it but I've noticed that the SAE's don't much care for it.

Is mglillie on this board and how are people meeting up with him?

[zapisto]

Do the zebra nerite snails repopulate quickly? Am I going to be overrun in a matter of weeks/months? How big do they get?

Zebra nerite need (normally, i know we get report time to time , saying people found young in their tank but.....) backwish water to reproduce.

[BigDaddy]

SAE's should enjoy the extra current... some of the only known successful breeding attempts in captivity of SAE's mimicked monsoon season with brisk currents and large water changes...

[Jason]

Zebra nerite need (normally, i know we get report time to time , saying people found young in their tank but.....) backwish water to reproduce.

Good to know. I might give them a shot as well.

SAE's should enjoy the extra current... some of the only known successful breeding attempts in captivity of SAE's mimicked monsoon season with brisk currents and large water changes...

Bizarre that they seem so afraid of the current then?? I think they just got to fat and lazy and just hang out in the rock crevises now.


Also I found mglillie's post after reading DD's reply so I'm going to place an order with him later this evening for the BN's.

[RoxyDog]

DD: I have some bigger fish too.
I've had nerites in with mbuna for 8 months, they don't even look twice at them.    The nerite snails don't come out of their shell as far as apple snails do, so they are like a turtle in it's shell for protection. 
And yes, every once in a blue moon you hear of possible nerite breeding, but it's is so very unlikley you'd ever get babies Jason. 

[Laura]

Just as a preamble, I know nothing about african cichlids.

BN's stay very small, I think 4".  Certainly the first one I ever got is still smaller than this.  BTW don't explicitly feed them; let them live off the algae and any scraps of food your cichlids don't eat.  They will be fine. 

I think APW is right on the size - but I was under a different impression on the feeding.  I feed mine and was thought they needed/did better being fed specifically. A couple of times a week after lights out I drop in algae pellets, a slice of cooked zucchini or some frozen/cooked leafy stuff that I keep for the snails.  It disappears, so I assume he gets some of it.

I wouldn't suggest khuli loaches with african cichlids, they're pretty defenseless little dudes.  I'm guessing here, but suspect they like softer acidic water.

[Adam]

Watch out for the magnetic algae pads.  If a piece of sand gets in between, even a tiny grain, you can expect large scratches.  It happened to me...

Adam

[darkdep]

Laura, I would suspect that if you're keeping any pleco for the pleco's sake, feeding a more varied diet would be better for them.  But, in a cleanup crew role, they do their job better if not fed...it convinces them to eat algae and leftover food.

[Adam]

Laura, I would suspect that if you're keeping any pleco for the pleco's sake, feeding a more varied diet would be better for them.  But, in a cleanup crew role, they do their job better if not fed...it convinces them to eat algae and leftover food.

My sp-144s won't touch algae wafers.  All they care about is the algae   

Adam

[Jason]

I wanted to thank everyone for their input once again and ask one final question.

I know this might seem silly but do BN plecos poop alot? The reason I ask is because with the common plecos I've kept I the past I swear they would create more waste than they were cleaning. They would leave loooong poops all over the tank and it was a pain cleaning up after them.

[darkdep]

Plecos are poop machines; however I have found with my BN's that it's not an issue.  I can't explicitly identify their poop over the Cichlid's poop. 

BTW just to test, since I'm awaiting an arrival of a bunch of BN's for my tanks, I threw one that I had into a 75 with a lot of brown algae covering the rocks.  Two days later not a drop remains.

[jdx]

For using common Pleco. I found if you feed sinking food, this is readily accessible for them, they would quickly become too lazy to work for food. If your tank has strong surface current and you feed floating food, it would be awkward for them to chase moving food on the surface. And they would get mobbed by cichlids when doing this. If there is left over and abundant algea, they have the motivation to work harder.

I have a pair of large Plecos, the male is close to 18" long and the female is arround 16". They mow the hairy algae all the times and keep them in control. Their 3' long poop's dark green color indicates their hard working..

Another good scavenger is Featherfin Creeker, I have 3 of them. They are tough and work well.