30 gal tetra tank to African Cichlids or The Newb Cichlid Thread

[groan]

OK, so I want to make the move since my tank has all the rocks in place and I need a change.

I am going to take in all my tetras in to BA's, possibly this weekend, BUT, I have a couple pleco's (for the life of me I cant remember the name of them, they only grow about 5 inches long) that i'd love to keep in the tank, but I;'ve been reading that they are tolerant to PH7 or 7.5. Is that right?
I also have many cherry shrimp and a few amano's will they be OK? I realize they may end up as expenmsive fish food, but I dont think I'll ahve much luck getting them all out, but I'll try if they wont survive the PH change.

As for the process,I was told by someone at BA's (cant remember name) that i should do a couple of 75% water changes to basically replace all the 7.5 water in there and replace it with water conditioned to 8.
let it sit for a couple days before introducing fish.

I'll be using the same filter system and substrate so the biology will remain intact.

Any thoughts?
I'd love to get some of the more colorful fish, but I have never kept cichlids. I'll do some reading on this forum and the Aquarius site to get as much as I can, but how many would you suggest and in what gender arrangement? 1-male with 3-4 females? All males? I just dont know but I do knwo I want them as a show tank, I'm not intrested at this point in breeding.

[Quatro]

If the plecos grow to about 5 inches then you may have bushy nose (bristle nose) plecos.  There are may others, but that one is probably the most common.  Your cherry shrimp will end up as expensive fish food.  I personally believe that 7.5 water will be fine for africans but some say the colors are better when you raise the pH and hardness.  Before bringing your tetras to BA's you could try to sell them here.

Mike S

[Laura]

Folks on the forum will also jump at your cherries and amanos if you want to get them out before they turn into fish food.

[groan]

cool, thanks for the suggestion.
I'll list what I have here when I'm ready.
How did ht rest of the post and questions sound?
Will the pleco be ok in a .5 higher tank if i decide to go up to 8? (i probably will do)

those cherries shre like to breed...nice since i only bought 5 and now have over 20

[darkdep]

Most Africans will do fine in 7.5 water.  Domestic raised ones are incredibly adaptable to water conditions.  You also don't need to remove any water; you can just add baking soda to the water to raise the pH (although I stress that messing with your water params is tricky unless you know what you're doing, and since it's not necessary for the fish you're looking at, I'd suggest you get the fish and get comfortable before playing with the water).

Your shrimp will be eaten, quickly.  I would try to catch them and sell them on here.

Your plecos will be fine, especially if they are Bushynose as it sounds.  In fact, BN plecos are excellent cleanup crew for African tanks; I have them in almost all my tanks.

As for gender arrangement, it depends on the species.  Yes you can do an all male tank, but keep in mind that one of the incentives for many male cichlids to colour up is to impress the females; some fish simply won't display with no females in the tank.  Unless you're buying mature fish and the person you're buying from knows their stuff, you may not be able to control the genders you end up with anyway.  But if you can, try for 1 male to 2 females if you're going for a show tank as a general guideline.  If you're getting any particularly aggressive species, 1m to 3-4f would be better.

Any species in mind at this point?

[groan]

Thanks DD,
That sounds great. I may set up my 10 GAL and keep some of the shrimp. they're so cute.

As for ideas of what to get, not a clue. This is my first foray into it.
I dont know any names ut i've seen some very nice looking ones at BA's.
I'll see if I can locate some pics of what I am looking at but just describing them, I saw one very bright yellow and one wiht deep blue and light blue stripes that appealed to me.
I'm sorry this sounds so newbish...I like that one! it's pretty! Sounds like a 16 year old going out to get thier first car...lol

Now that I know that making the swiitch isnt going to be that difficult I'll do some more research.

Any suggestions? (with links to pics perhaps) I am open to anything at this point. I really dont know one way or the other to go aggro or not. so I need guidance there.
What i'd like to know is can you mix species like you see in the fish stores? Of course I would not put as many as yousee in a fish store. I still am not sure how many fish total i could put in this size of a tank. but as you said, it depends on if i am going aggro or not.

sorry to be so unhelpful.
sigh.

[darkdep]

No worries, glad to help. 

Africans come in a large number of species, some of which look very similar (i.e the "blue with stripes" complex).  I would stay away from anything highly aggressive at the start; even "peaceful" africans may surprise you at their aggressiveness compared to Tetras

The bright yellow one was likely a Yellow Lab, a fairly common African that is perfect for new tanks.  They are peaceful, colourful, and hardy.  Almost any blue African of the same size will look great with the Yellow, and will get along.

Most Africans don't have common names (many do tho), because there are so many and they are still being defined in many cases.  Thus, the best way we can provide more info is for you to obtain the scientific names of the fish you're interested in.  A great resource for African profiles is here:  Cichlid Forum Profiles.

If you see a fish at an LFS you like, ask the staff for it's scientific name.  Tell them you need to research it.  Post it here and we can help with suggestions with regards to mixing and numbers.

Tips:  Never look at fish in the "Mixed African" tank that is common at many stores.  These fish are usually hybrids.  In the African world, hybrids are a Very Bad Thing.

Also, if the staff can't give you the scientific name I wouldn't buy the fish anyway.  Some Africans are real murderers but may look very similar to a peaceful species.

[groan]

I see what you mean by the blue stripe
http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/african_cichlid_genus_gallery.php

Isee there are two regions (lakes) they come from. Are they mixable or should one stay with it's neighbours?

OK OK, I'll start reading the articles on the Cichlid site. Maybe what I need is some hand holding and have someone tell me what i want

I may go to the fish store and write down some names and snap some phone pictures.

thanks again. I'll be back.

[pegasus]

Tips:  Never look at fish in the "Mixed African" tank that is common at many stores.  These fish are usually hybrids.  In the African world, hybrids are a Very Bad Thing.

That's a very good tip but "Mixed Africans" does not mean that they all are hybrids. Often these are fish that the stores could not sell, because they are drab females or there was only one sor two pecimens in a tank. The tip is good because you will probably never gonna know for sure what you got.

BTW 30 gal is pretty small for Africans and you will be limited in your choice.

[darkdep]

Yes, as you say Michel they are not always hybrids, they are often one-offs or unidentifiable ones.  There just isn't any goodness there

[groan]

Tahnks, I'll keep that in mind when I'm looking.

BTW 30 gal is pretty small for Africans and you will be limited in your choice.

I will also keep this in mind. I dont mind not having a bunch of fish in the tank, like I do now. I mainly want a few really nice looking fish.
I was under the assumption that the africans were the smaller type to get. I'f I'm wrong let me know. I know i will be restricted with what i willb e able to get and that too is OK. I dont have the means at this point to get a larger tank but i do want to get cichlids because of the showiness of them. I'm tired of keeping the drab colors of my tetras and want a bright colored tank without having to go salt water (which i did consider).

Thanks alot with for helping me with my venture.

[Demasonian]

see there are two regions (lakes) they come from. Are they mixable or should one stay with it's neighbours?

There's a diverse range of opinions here. In such a small tank, I'd be inclined to stick to one lake or the other, and one  genus/species within that lake.

For a 30 gallon you could do a Tanganyikan shelldweller setup, or have a pair of Tanganyikan rockdwellers (comressiceps, calvus, julies or the like). This would be an interesting setup, but not necessarily colourful.

If it's colour you want, you should seek out some dwarf mbuna. For this size tank, and given the fish colours you identified above, you may want to consider a Ps. Saulosi species tank. (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1). Males are blue/black, females orangish yellow. They stay relatively small and have a decent disposition. A good example of a Saulosi species tank in a 30 gallon is here: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/ then do a search for saulosi and look at the tank by John Labbe.

Good luck!

[darkdep]

Africans come in all sizes.  Shelldwellers, for example, are quite small (most are about 2" full grown) whereas many MBuna are 6-7" full grown, and peacocks and others can be much larger.  I have 4 Protomelas Spilonotus that are over 8" now and look crowded in the 75gal tank they are in!

Also, don't worry about mixing the lakes.  Some people are purists and don't mix but it's not out of any technical reason; it's just for their own personal reasons.

[darkdep]

Saulosi is a great suggestion, BTW.

[groan]

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/tanks/displaytank.php?style=1&tank=2205

WOW! that is gorgeous and he has 16 fish in there!

I dont know if i could start with taht many fish, probably quite a cost there but I have a similar setup now, though i dont have the nice sandy bottom and my rocks are all lava.

Thanks for the inspiration and the blue and yellow look great.

The Tanganyikan may not be colorful but they sure are showy! I love the markings and the fin shapes...very nice looking fish! These too are now a consideration.

I see in one tank setup they are digging, should I invest in a bag of sandy substrate? I like the look of the uneven bottom so I want to put some in there. now I am using a small grained gravel.
Thaks for the suggestions. it's exactly what I need.

[Demasonian]

Substrate is personal preference, but for both the mbuna and the tangs, my own feeling is that sand would be the best choice, especially if you like the idea of terraforming fish. Mbuna and some of the shell dwellers are excellent diggers and landscapers.

If you opted for the saulosi route, you would only need one male, four females to start. They would very rapidly (re:6 months) grow themselves into a colony. If there's one thing you can count on with mbuna, it's their ability to reproduce.

If you go the tang route, you might consider a pair or trio of Lamprologus Ocellatus (Golds http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1753) and a pair of either one of the milder Julidichromis species (don't have any experience here - http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1532), Calvus (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1578), or Compressiceps (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1583).

With Africans, there's a lot to choose from, and many of them are available from the members of this forum along with some great advice!

[groan]

By shelldweller and rockdweller I am assuming you are referring to thier adult size. I see alot of teh neo's are 3.5 in or smaller...is that what you mean?

Thanks again for the suggestions ane I may consider buying from members, though i tend to be one of those guys that like to go one-stop-shopping...I may head to the lfs (BA's) for my new batch, unless i get someome to suggest otherwise. I guess if i am buying only the Saulosi and all from one member then that's not so bad, but I dont want to have to go to 3 different places to get my fish..it's just my way.

Alot of these fish read that they require very hard water. When I was at bA's last weekend i was told about a rock you can buy, coral?, that will help with PH and hardness...is that required?

[pegasus]

I breed all the africans mentioned above. I use all kind of substrate without any preference (I think my fish don't have a preference either) but the coral will help in keeping some hardness. I don't wory about my PH unless it would falls under 7.2.
It's more important that you start your tank with a consideration of the right specie, as for size and aggression level among their own specie or with others. IMO it's the habitat itself that makes a succesfull african tank. Have plenty of rocks/caves or shells and you should be fine.

[groan]

Thanks Pegasus. That's great info.

When I pick up my fish I'll be sure to grab a couple shells as well and a chunk of coral.
I have lots of rock already as I set up a plantless tank for my tetras and it is already perfect for cichlids.

As for selling off my fish, I don't know if i'll be able to do a come-to-my-place sale because we have a sick little guy at home and I want to avoid alot of traffic.

It may jsut be easier for me to bring everything to the shop...except for the shrimp...they havealready been spoken for!

[groan]

I was going to go find my image of my tank from an earlier thread but I guess attachments get cleared on a regular basis?

Here you can see what my tank has gone through...i'm pretty happy with it now except i dont have enough light in my opinion. it's a stock 1 bar fluro and i'd love to get it to 2 but at $200 a pop, fagetaboutit...it can wait.

http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22820&highlight=