Odd german ram behaviour

[succinctfish]

Well, it's been my experience that german rams pair up to spawn and protect their young.  I have discus spawning in a 90 gallon aquarium, and rams as well.  The favourite spawning area for both is the large piece of driftwood in the tank. In order to have a successful raising of fry, some rams have adapted to this close proximity to the discus, and the presence of a lot of predators, by forming a trio.  The fry are doing well with this extra protection. I'm not sure whose offspring they are, whether two females spawned with the same male, or whether for whatever reason, a ram decided to help out a pair and join the family.  It's quite funny to watch, they seem very clear on their roles; one of the rams pushed one of the others down toward the fry as if to say, hey that's your job, get back to it   They've managed to clear a small corner where no one will venture, they're even holding off the discus.  It's quite a hoot.  Has anyone else experienced this?

Here is a very bad picture of them(wow, do I need to clean my glass )

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[Rudy00]

very interesting, can you get any videos of this?
i'm a big fan of rams!

[beowulf]

That is kind of interesting.  Mine never did that, maybe yours are kinky and had a menage-a-trois!!!

[BigDaddy]

I haven't seen a trio in action, but my pair of rams routinely fend off the discus in the tank.  The same can't be said of my discus spawns, the rams are the first at the egg site.  The rams have spawned successfully, the discus still haven't!

[Aquaviewer]

It is not unusual in some species of birds and mammals for offsring from a previous brood to stay on to help the parent care for subsequent broods.  The theory being that by helping ensure the success of the next generation of offspring the older siblings are, in an indirect way, contributing to the success of their gene line to the next generation without the physiological cost of actually spawning (or laying eggs, having a litter etc...).

I did find this quote "A more extreme version of guarding is practiced by some Tanganyikan cichlids. There, older siblings will stay around the nest and help the parents defend subsequent spawns. The babies are allowed to stay until breeding age, when they are driven off"  Perhaps one of the African cichlid breeders here can comment on its validity.  If this is indeed the case then it would not be too radical to suggest that their south American counterparts may do the same.

Very cool observation on your part, keep us posted.

[darkdep]

I've always seperated my African mothers, so have nothing to offer...

[babblefish1960]

The Discus seem to hold their own with the rest of the fish concerning their own spawns, right along to the fry eating from their slimecoats.
It has been fascinating this time around watching the rams take advantage of the extra protection the discus are offering in that corner of the tank. The rams have been affording more protection for the discus too, from all the evil tetras and rams that like to harrass the discus fry.

What has been thrilling, is the three rams, all coloured up to the point that we can't really tell which two are the parents, guarding ferociously against all comers. What appears to be the dominant male, is continually pushing one or the other ram back down near the eggs to keep tending them, all a few inches below the discus spawn.

I so need to clean the glass and lure someone with a video camera over to film it, it is really quite remarkable.

It should be very curious to see what develops once everyone is free swimming soon.

[succinctfish]

The rams have spawned successfully, the discus still haven't!

Same here BD
Today the trio is still successfully guarding the offspring, but the discus babies, which were almost at the free swimming stage, are gone.  It doesn't help that  the discus wander off and leave them unguarded, nice tasty wiggling snackfood for the rams.  I didn't have a camera with me today unfortunately, but it was quite the sight to see the rams fending off 4 discus with great success.  They are such spunky little things.