? for Ram experts / breeders

[PrincessFish]

Hi everyone,
     I'm new to the ovas site and to fish ownership too.  My question is about ram dynamics.  If two Bolivians are swimming together sometimes but frequently staying at opposite sides of the tank (25G) and also having frequent 'face-offs' (locking onto each others mouths) does this suggest anything about their genders?
     Thanks in advance for your insights!

[BigDaddy]

Bolivians are very hard to sex... but the behaviour you describe sounds more like two fish vying for dominance.

Without any other info other than what you have provided, my guess would be two of the same sex ...

[PrincessFish]

Yeh, that's what I was afraid of.

[PrincessFish]

What might happen if I added a third ram?  Of course I would try to find an opposite gender.  I've heard that rams are ok in 2s or 3s.

[PrincessFish]

Hi PaleoFishGirl and others,

       Can I ask how frequently you change your water for your rams?  And what % you change each time?  I've done alot of internet and fish store employees research and am trying to figure out a healthy and safe balance.  Thanks!

[mseguin]

To determine sex, there are a few things to look for, not foolproof, but so far I'm doing pretty well at iding them.
Elongations on the caudal fin: they may be small when u first purchase them, but females tend to have completely truncate fins while males will have eognations on top and bottom.
Pointed anal and dorsal fins: males will tend to have more pointed anterior ends to those fins, females will be more rounded.
More disticnt coloration when mature: not necessarily more colourful, I just find males tend to have more clearly defined colours, such as darker black and brighter yellow in the head.

[PrincessFish]

Thanks for that mseguin - I'll have a good look if I do go back for a third.
I've also heard some talk that fish can change gender???  I'm guessing that if this does happen it would happen while still quite young but I haven't been able to purchase a good reference book yet that would help me understand this possibility.  Can you share what you know?  Thanks again!

[Toss]

Hi Princess
Welcome to the club
I breed German blue ram. What Matt (mseguin) described is absolutely correct. It works for german blue ram too. Another physical difference would be the colour of their belly. female=pink, male=yellow. When they pair up, the male does the "dance" in front of the female. Good luck

[PrincessFish]

Thanks for all your input!
I just picked up the Baensch "Aquarium Atlas" today and can only find the German Ram (Microgeophagus ramirezi) in it.  Does anyone know if the Bolivian is in this atlas?

[mseguin]

Should definitely be. Mikrogeophagus altispinosa

[PrincessFish]

Hi Matt,  nope I'm disappointed, only Mikrogeophagus ramirezi!  Can these two be interbred?

[mseguin]

Not likely, they shouldnt even be in the same genus, as they're fairly different morphologically and behaviourly.

[PrincessFish]

But isn't Mikrogeophagus ramirezi the Blue Ram?  Which is the genus?  I thought it was the M.?? 
. . . alot to learn!!

[mseguin]

Yes you're right, I'm saying they SHOULDN'T be in the same genus, but they currently are classified that way.

[PrincessFish]

Ohhh, I see.
I also see that you have M. Altispinosa as well.  Have you or do you breed them?

[mseguin]

Mine have gone throguh the pre-mating dances but never actually done it. I plan on getting another fermale sometime to see how that works out.

[PrincessFish]

Matt, where would you get a female?  I would like to add a female to my tank as well but don't really want to end up with 3 males. 

[mseguin]

I have Bolivians at Sp Kanata

[PrincessFish]

Great, I'll stop by later this week!  Thanks.