So far so good, should I worry?

[homestar726]

Ok, im new so be gentle.

I got a 30gal long tank about three weeks ago. I filled it with water and decorations right away and began filtration. I waited a whole 1 week before I put fishies in. I put in 3 Dalmation Mollies, and 3 Black Mollies. at first they were shy, but now they are the life of the tank.

On a sub-question, Is it weird that they go crazy for flakes? and not so crazy for blood worms?

K, so back to my story. They are the happiest fish it seems, and they eat very well. I had to change there feeding habit from as much as they can eat in 3 mins (in the A.M.), to morning and night feedings... THey have double in size already, and yet again, they are happier than happier can be.

So.... I bought them a tank mate... A Rainbow shark (Big Al's recommended over a red tail shark).

The mollies seem to have the run of the tank, and the shark seems to hide most of the time. He has only been in the tank for about two days, but I noticed this morning he's no as scared.

BIG Questions:

- has my tank finished cycling? (The water is clear, and the fish are happy)
- If the shark doesnt feed with the fish, and i really havent seen him eat, should i worry? Ive tried flakes and blood worms. (or buy special food, or does he eat at night when the lights are out)
- Any advice for a beginner? Im new, but everything seems to be going by the book, and I follow directions to a T

Thanks 

[KLKelly]

I'd cut back on the feeding.

After one week your ammonia is probably at toxic levels.  Are you doing large water changes and vacuuming the gravel?

Here's an article that I used to understand the cycle.  You are just starting a cycle and its very very hard on fish.  Ammonia can burn their fins and gills, nitrite can poison them - with fish with scales 1tsp/gallon of aquarium salt will protect the fish against nitrite poisoning but I have no clue about sharks.  Sharks might not be able to handle salt.

Please read up on the cycling process and get test kits for at least ammonia, ph, and nitrite.

Article:  http://thegab.org/Articles/WaterQualityCycling.html

After seeing one of my fish go through cycling hell I will only do fishless cycling in the future.

Best of luck.

[beowulf]

Welcome.  My first question to answer your question is have you bought a kit to test your water?  If you have not best do it and test your water everyday until you Ammonia and Nitrite is at 0.

[PuddleDuck]

No, your tank isnt finished cycling. Unfortunately 1 week doesn't cut it unless you have some bacteria from (ideally) another freshwater filter or even "Cycle" (which can be purchased at your LFS). As per Beowulf's very useful advice, get a test kit. As per KLkelly's useful advice, do some small water changes to prevent fish loss. 

Welcome aboard! 

[homestar726]

Ok. Thanks a bunch.

Ill do a 1/4 - 1/3 water change tonight and add a tsp of aquarime salt. Also, Im just about to go check out that website.

[KLKelly]

I wouldn't add salt unless you are sure a shark can handle it.
Also you wouldn't add salt until you see NitrIte in your tests anyways.

When I went through cycling with fish in it the high ammonia and high ph combination meant daily water changes (sometimes 50%) for almost a month.  It wasn't fun.  I would really try and get some filter media from a member.  If I had extra I'd give you some but I just set up a new tank so I don't have any extra.  I ended up driving to Kingston where someone had offered an extra filter sponge they had.  The cycle was over within a day or two of adding the sponge.

What could help - if people can't spare sponges is to try and get a couple cups of gravel from a cycled tank.... put them in a nylon (cut off a knee high and tie it up) and put it in the back of your filter.  This would help speed things up.  Worse comes to worse - a week from now I could spare some gravel.

[PuddleDuck]

Im sure if you post on the classifieds that youre looking for some dirty filter water to get your tank going, lots of members would offer some to you.

[homestar726]

Ok, so a water change i will do when i get home. But Here is the twist. On my 30gal long tank, I am using a Marineland Emperor 400 (Dual Bio-Wheel). Its a huge filter. Got a great deal . But I thought that would help the cycling process be less harsh, or...... will it take longer because the filter is huge?

[KLKelly]

I don't think the filter really helps the cycling process.

Ammonia is toxic and at high levels at the start because the biobugs that would convert it into the less toxic nitrate (may not be explained correctly) aren't up to speed.  The filter takes out the waste but the cycle I believe is about the nitrification process.

Having a good filter helps keep your water clean which in the long run means happier healthier fish.

I'm sure someone will have cycled gravel or a sponge.  I know people know how hard the cycling process is on fish and will offer it if they can.

Only test kits (ammonia, nitrAte, nitrIte, and PH) can tell you if your tank is at toxic levels and how far along you are in the cycling process if you don't go the route of using cycled media.

I'll find out how long it takes for my tank to bounce back and see if I can spare some gravel. (I only have about four bundles of it left in nylons in the bottom of my 90G that I used to cycle it).

[PuddleDuck]

Nope, the filter wont help.

The only two options for speeding up your cycle are to either
a) get some dirty water from someones filter
b) buy some "cycle" from your LFS


Waiting us hard. I've done freshwater for years and have just stared my 1st salt water cycling and its hard to be patient!

[Laura]

I agree with other folks that your tank likely hasn't cycled yet, and as such, lots of water changes would help your fish by keeping toxic levels down.  Here's a post that includes my favourite explanation of cycling by luvfishies http://ovas.ca/index.php?topic=11389.msg88788#msg88788

I should clarify something someone else said  -  it is grungy filter material, not old tank water that will help a tank cycle faster.  I'm downtown and you are welcome to a grungy filter sponge if you want one 

[PrincessFish]

Hi homestar,

       I'm new also and please don't be too discouraged!
       My full cycle took 2 weeks to break (happened 6 days ago) well maybe 3 weeks if you count the first week during which I had plants but no fish.  I have the mini-master test kit and tested daily.  I also used Nutrafin 'Cycle' and 'WasteControl' and I changed water about 25% every couple of days - whenever the nitrites got close to 0.3 . . . I didn't want to stress my fish too much.  I was actually surprised at how relatively painless it was!  Never had more than 0.6 ammonia.  On the otherhand my fish were getting 2 small pinches of flakes per day only.
       Good luck!

[KLKelly]

I'm glad you had an easy experience.  My cycling experience - even feeding just two peas every two days - was hell.  My ph is 8.3.  Ammonia burn was so bad.  Everyone I had talked to at the LFS said - oh thats a sign of healing.  Turns out it was a cycle and he was getting all burned up.  It took over a month to cycle and only ended after adding a cycled filter sponge.

[PrincessFish]

Ouch! 
Were you using Cycle and Waste Control? 
Your experience was more what I was expecting . . . now, I'm not getting too excited as I'm sure I'll pay my dues later ;o)

[KLKelly]

I was a newbie... it was horrible - I didn't find out about cycling until he was all burned up.  Mines a long story but my high ph made ammonia toxic even at low levels.  I still feel guilty    People with PH of 7.4 or less I envy!

Laura - that's so cool of you to offer the sponge!!!!

I'll get on my soapbox and preach about test kits and fishless cycling any day

Karrie

[fishycanuck]

Let us know what area of town you live in, someone nearby will offer you gravel or an old sponge - more bacteria in that than in old water.

[homestar726]

Thanks for all the great offers.

I can use all the help I need to get up to speed. Im in the west area of Ottawa.

*** Recent Update ***
I  did do a 1 / 3 water change yesturday cause my little fellas are so happy, and I dont want anything to happen to them... I tested the water after and my amonia is 1.0 ppm, Nitrites 0.0, Nitrate 0.0 and pH looked about between 7.0 - 7.4... WHich means the cycle has bearly begun. So anyone willing to help, I would appreciate it sooo much, cause I dont want to kill/hurt/or even stress these fishies.

My Coz and my gf are amazed how much these fish are great. When I go to feed them, they come right to to top like excited lil kids, and will now even eat from my finger tips. If I stick my fingers in the tank after feeding, they do the affection thing like a cat?

I was always one of those people that said fish are boring pets, and man do I ever take that back. SO far the experience has been great. But the worry is growing...

I also working in Billings Bridge in the south end of Ottawa tonight, so it thats even easier lemme know.

THanks Everyone, Ill definitely pay it forward!
Shawn

Ps. Ill post some pics for all to see my babies.

[jodes22]

Hey Homestar,
I have an empty tank with some used water in it, if that would help??
I am in the south end of Ottawa, if you wanted to pick some up tomorrow night???
Probably should have pm'd you. I am new at this, but would like to help if I can.
Since you're new at this too, maybe someone else could tell me what to put the water in? I'm a little wet behind the ears at this  and don't really know much about cycling.

[squeeker]

Just to re-iterate...

Used water will not help speed up a cycle.  This is because the bacteria required for the cycle live on the surfaces in the aquarium (gravel, filter sponge) and not in the water column.

Also, IMO, Cycle and Waste control are a waste of money.

Here's a really good summary about cycling (from Koko's Goldfish World):

CYCLING THE TANK

Fish expel solid wastes and liquid ammonia – lots of it! The solid wastes decompose and also release ammonia. Ammonia is highly poisonous and can very quickly accumulate to lethal levels. You can't see it, touch it or smell it however, and for this reason it is sometimes called 'the silent killer'.

However, there are good bacteria living in the filter which convert ammonia into another substance: nitr*I*te. Nitrite is also poisonous to fish, but a different set of bacteria convert it into yet another substance: nitr*A*te. No bacteria will convert nitrate, but this is only harmful in very high concentrations and is easily kept in check by weekly water changes.

Fish = ammonia = nitrite = nitrate = removal: this is the 'cycle' of the tank.

This all sounds great, but when you set up a brand-new tank there are none of these good bacteria to covert the ammonia and nitrite, so the levels build up and the water quickly becomes toxic. 'Cycling the tank' is therefore the first job of a new tank owner. It simply means the process of growing a colony of bacteria to convert all the ammonia and nitrite and keep the water safe for your fish. Because of the extreme toxicity of ammonia and nitrite, cycling the tank properly is absolutely vital.

It takes about a month for a new tank to cycle. During the first 2 weeks the levels of ammonia and nitrite will rise and during the second two weeks they will fall. After the fourth week, no ammonia or nitrite will be present, only nitrates, which means the bacteria have grown and the cycle is now working. However, while these bacteria are building up, obviously there are not enough of them to convert all the ammonia and nitrite, and therefore you need to physically protect your fish by performing regular water changes to keep the levels low. (Incidentally, you don't need to add any bacteria to the water - they naturally appear on their own. If you do want to help the cycle along however, the only product which does this is called Bio-Spira by Marine Labs).

This is how to cycle a tank:

Day 1: Test the water for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate using your test kits, once in the morning and ideally once again in the evening. If you find either ammonia or nitrite present above 1.0 ppm, change enough water to get the levels down to between 0.5 and 1.0 ppm. If they are already at this level however then you don't need to change any water.

Day 2: Repeat.

Continue with this process every single day until absolutely no ammonia or nitrites are present and only nitrates are seen. And that's it – you've cycled the tank. Easy, isn't it?! All the substances and processes sound complicated, but actually dealing with them is very easy as long as you are attentive and vigilant and willing to lug around buckets of water frequently. Once you have successfully cycled the tank then you only need do tests and water changes once a week.

POINTS TO NOTE ABOUT CYCLING:

1. The cycling process may take three weeks or it may take six: each tank varies a little. About a month is usual though. If your tank is still not cycled after 6 weeks then something is wrong: these are common problems to check for:

- too many fish in too small a tank
- overfeeding
- something rotting in the tank (e.g. a plant or some food buried in the gravel)
- the filter is inadequate for the size of tank or not working properly
- inadequate aeration (the bacteria need oxygen too)
- the pH is too high or too low
- the temperature is too high or too low
- the water is not dechlorinated

2. The amount of water you change during cycling will vary: some days it might be 50% or even 80% of the total volume, other days only 10% or even none at all. NEVER assume the water is safe after a water change however – always test it again to make sure the levels really have gone down far enough. If they haven't, then change more water and test again... and again if necessary.

3. Don't be tempted to change enormous quantities of water to try and keep the ammonia and nitrites at zero all the time; you must leave some in the tank otherwise the bacteria will not build up and the tank will never cycle. Remember: between 0.5 and 1.0 is best. Don't clean your substrate too thoroughly either as bacteria grow there as well as in the filter.

4. Feed your fish extremely sparingly during cycling as the more food you put in, the more ammonia builds up. Only feed once a day or even only every other day, and only as much as they will eat within two minutes. Check that no food gets left uneaten as it will rot and cause the ammonia to rise.

5. If you ever add more fish to the tank, change all the water at once, remove or change all the substrate or change the filter media (which you should never need to do if you clean it gently in old tank water once a month or so) then be aware your tank may undergo another cycle – test and check.

[fishycanuck]

I've sent you a pm with my location to collect some seed material. Just stop feeding for a bit, the fish will forgive you.