Cleaning options?

[PrincessFish]

Hello,

       I have a planted tank with Flourite substrate and therefore do not 'clean' the gravel with a python attachment.  I also have stones on top of the Flourite and they are getting coated with a brown algae.  Can someone help me with options here - I am considering a small pleco (in addition to my 3 corys) to feed on this algae and keep things clean and I am also wondering about the usefulness of snails to ensure that the substrate is moved about and nothing starts bubbling down there that shouldn't be.
       Your advice would be most welcome!  Thanks.

pF

[babblefish1960]

My absolute favourite substrate toiler has got to be the Malaysian trumpet snails. These pretty little creatures are marvels in the muck under the gravel. They are also live bearing snails, so you would never have to live through icky clutches of snail eggs.

Corydoras don't actually eat gravel, neither do most plecostamus, but the bristle nose or bushy nose can be found to consume this. There are however two good fish that do, the first is the true Siamese algae eater, it has been my experience to only see the young SAE's actually eating the stuff. The second would be the otocinclis that likes to be in small groups, and eats a lot of this stuff, as do platys and swords. There are also brigs that eat algae, but once they have eaten the entire region of algae, will starve to death rather than eat your plants or flakes.

Good luck with that, and have fun picking out your new best friends under water.

[PrincessFish]

Thanks Babble,

       Will the snails clean off the top of the larger rocks too??

[gonna_b_no_1]

If you don't mind the 5 minute hop into hull, I can give you as many malaysian trumpet snails as you want

[homestar726]

very generous! This is why OVAS is the best place to be 

[gonna_b_no_1]

15 tanks full of mts snails...I can spare a bunch of mts snails 

[RedFish]

If I may butt in on this thread, if I only have gravel substrate that is 2 inches deep, should I get mts or does it really matter if the gravel gets well cleaned? (planted tank)

Second question, if these little mts breed so quickly, what do you do with all the babies you end up with, I don't really want to have 15 tanks full of mts down the road 

[93GTCANADA]

i would be interested in some mts. but first i would like to see what the answer to redfish questions are lol.

[PaleoFishGirl]

Corydoras don't actually eat gravel, neither do most plecostamus, but the bristle nose or bushy nose can be found to consume this. There are however two good fish that do, the first is the true Siamese algae eater, it has been my experience to only see the young SAE's actually eating the stuff. The second would be the otocinclis that likes to be in small groups, and eats a lot of this stuff, as do platys and swords.

Excellent advice for the most part, babble   Gravel-eating fish are indeed hard to come by.

What do you do with all the babies? Exactly what gonna_be_no_1 is doing - give 'em away!! 

[93GTCANADA]

but will it harm the tank in anyway. fish plants etc.. ?

[PrincessFish]

Thanks a ton everybody!!  Especially Gonna_b for advice (and offers) and Jesse at SP Barrhaven who picked me out about 3 dozen today - very inexpensive although not quite as much as Gonna_b's (just alot closer!).  Amazingly my rocks are already significantly cleaner!!

In answer to some of the ??'s, what I now understand to be the situation:

The MTSs will only reproduce to the extent that they eat all your algae - they will not overrun the tank.  Experienced aquarists please correct me if this is incorrect.
They do not 'eat' gravel but rather eat all the algae that grows on it.  They also aerate the substrate by burrowing in it and this is great for the plants.
They will not harm tank, fish or plants in any way . . . well except perhaps nibbling on the plants a wee bit - but apparently not too much.  Throw in some zucchini or lettuce overnight if this starts happening (be sure to take out in the am) or better yet, I think there are spirulina waffers you can get for bottom feeders.  Some of the more experienced among us will surely come to my rescue if I start having problems.

Thanks again - you folks are terrriiifffic!!!

pF

[gonna_b_no_1]

np

Still have 14 tanks I can harvest from lol

[babblefish1960]

Excellent advice for the most part, babble   Gravel-eating fish are indeed hard to come by.

Okay, that is fair, I was clearly having a blonde moment when I traded the word Algae in favour of gravel.

So, only rockbiter's eat gravel. Everybody with me so far?

Malaysian trumpet snails do not eat algae, nerite snails eat algae, malaysian trumpet snails are perfect for planted tanks because they don't eat plants or vegetables or fish or eggs or anything really, other than fish muck found in the gravel. They turn over the gravel and are a good barometer of the tank condition, they will flock to the top of the tank up the glass during the day if you have something evil happening in your gravel that even they can't handle.

Malaysian trumpet snails don't eat algae, everone got that this time? nor do they eat plants, they do think that shrimp pellets can be cool though.

Nerite snails eat algae, you all with me here?  nor do they eat plants, and they too are pretty darn cute.

Malaysian trumpet snails will only reproduce in direct proportion to the amount of muck in your tank, if you overfeed your fish, the malaysian trumpet snails will love you for it, and you will notice your gravel moving everywhere all day, and the glass is covered with them at night when they emerge. Reduce the feeding, and the malaysian trumpet snails will also reduce.

The nerite snails will starve if you have no algae, so naturally, you can supplement their diet with algae wafers. Plus they have pretty shells and a cute foot.

Did I mention that malaysian trumpet snails don't eat algae, well if you missed it, they eat all the rooting food, fish poop, mulm and detritus found wriggling its way into the substrate, they break it down for better use for the plants to eat. Plants also don't eat gravel, they need it broken down into something more manageable for them.

I hope this is more clear than the gravel eating fish I was addressing earlier.

[PrincessFish]

 
Thanks Babble!!
Very interesting!  Ok, so now I know that I had muck on my rocks . . . YUK!     Is that better or worse than algae??     sounds worse!
Seriously thank you!  And now I have to get some nerite snails 
pF

[RedFish]

Thank you Babble very informative and very clear!   mts don't eat algae right?

Are MTS then a snail that every planted tank should have?    Do people successfully have planted tanks without mts?

And if I have a good algae eating pleco, do I need Nerite snails - or do the snails perform a different job?

[PaleoFishGirl]

My main planted tank doesn't have MTS, but my smaller tanks all do.  The plants are all fine.

It's not really about *needing* snails, it's about being a Snail Weirdo and just keeping them because you love them (welcome aboard, PrincessFish!)

[gonna_b_no_1]

For me, it's not a "need 2 have em" it's a "they're kinda cute, not buggin anyone..."

I did read somewhere that they'll snack on eggs though

is that really true? 

Not that it's stressin me out with all my livebearers, but I made sure I have none in my bare tanks with spawning mop and tadpole tanks..

[kennyman]

I think the greatest benefit from Malaysian Trumpet Snails comes to people with fine grain substrate. Microbial activity will deplete available O2 in the lower depths of fine substrates where diffusion from the water column is limited. MTS are constantly mining around foraging for goodies down there and the tunneling helps to re oxygenate. I kind of think of them as the earthworms of the planted aquarium 

In typical aquarium gravel there is likely enough overall diffusion taking place as the porespace is quite large. Larger porespace allows for greater exchange between the substrate and the water column so there is less likelyhood of O2 depleted areas and therefore less of an impact from the use of MTS.

[babblefish1960]

Not a bad theory there Kennyman, the only difference I would suggest, is that the larger gravel, relative to sand granules of course, is that a lot of crud falls into the gravel and makes a mucky mess of your theory. All that "space" gets filled with detritus more easily. For myself, my gravel covers soil, and the malaysian trumpet snails have a blast down there, they just love the mud.

[PoisonJello]

well all this talk about MTS i figured i should get some, so i asked about them while at BA Innes today and they just gave me a dozen or so for free...I guess they multiply so fast they just want to get rid of them  but i think my cichlids thinned them out a bit already...good thing i put some in my 10g also to replenish the 65g from time to time