Gasping Fish

[neon]

Hi,

I set up a new tank a couple of weeks ago, and have been monitoring my water.  This morning, all my fish were at the surface gasping for air and my nitrates and nitrites were high.  I increased my water aeration for oxygen and immediately performed about a 30% water change.  As soon as I increased the aeration, the fish were going about their regular business.  Did I change enough of the water, and how often should I do a water change considering its a new tank?

[FishPassion]

My guess would be the increase in air was a major factor in reducing the gasping but the water change was Necessary big time for there survival...

[fischkopp]

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increased the aeration

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immediately performed about a 30% water change
very good emergency steps, you did the right things!

After an incident like this its good to change 50% to 75% of the water, especially if the nitrite peaks. On a regular basis you should change about 25% of the water at least biweekly. I do so for bigger tanks, for my smaller tanks I try to keep a weekly schedule.

Nitrate peaks usually occur during cycling, so within the first 6 weeks after tank setup and after the increase of population. If your tank runs a bit longer already make sure you dont feed too much (Gasping fish means sort of a lag of oxygen, which may be caused by many bacteria cleaning up the excess food) and the filtration is working properly. Important is that you dont clean the filter too much to allow helpful bacteria to settle down, which makes nitrite to nitrate. The only way to get rid of nitrate is in fact a water change.

[dan2x38]

Great emergency steps... never wash out a filter in the 1st 6 weeks... if it is a mulite stage filter never clean all stages at the same time... draw some tank water and rinse the filter in that water then add the filter back throw away the water... tap water will kill the benificial bacteria it it is not treated... read and research... depending on the type of fish you have you can add salt tsp. per 5 gallon but some fish can be harmed by salt same as plants... research your fish first... loaches, cories, tetras are some that are sensitive to salt...

Here are a couple links:

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

[beowulf]

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increased the aeration

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immediately performed about a 30% water change
very good emergency steps, you did the right things!

After an incident like this its good to change 50% to 75% of the water, especially if the nitrite peaks. On a regular basis you should change about 25% of the water at least biweekly. I do so for bigger tanks, for my smaller tanks I try to keep a weekly schedule.

Nitrate peaks usually occur during cycling, so within the first 6 weeks after tank setup and after the increase of population. If your tank runs a bit longer already make sure you dont feed too much (Gasping fish means sort of a lag of oxygen, which may be caused by many bacteria cleaning up the excess food) and the filtration is working properly. Important is that you dont clean the filter too much to allow helpful bacteria to settle down, which makes nitrite to nitrate. The only way to get rid of nitrate is in fact a water change.

I agree check the water as often as you can and change some every morning and night if you can.  How many fish in the tank? How often and much do you feed?

[dan2x38]

good advice for sure... should only feed once a day and no more then they can eat in a couple minutes... a fish's stomach is about the size of it's eye... more fish die from overfeeding then under feeding... the food rotting at the bottm increases the bio-load with increased ammonia (NH3) levels... remove any uneatten food...

[KLKelly]

Doesn't nitrites hurt fish if they are high? Couldn't this be the reason?  Isn't that why you add salt to the tank if there aren't any scaleless fish?  And if nitrAtes are high - would you not just do daily partial water changes until nitrites are zero?

Fish - even larger fish like goldfish - can die during cycling.  I assume its just as hard on small fish.

[fischkopp]

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Doesn't nitrites hurt fish if they are high?

Yes, it will poison your fish, the same happens if the nitrates are too high. The only difference is that for nitrates an even low concentration can harm your fish. Harmful nitrate levels are usually higher.

The only way to keep both in control are a good working bio filtration for nitrite and frequent water changes for nitrate.

Salt help calming the fish and especially when curing a disease. It wouldnt help much with getting nitrite/nitrate levels down.

[beowulf]

Doesn't nitrites hurt fish if they are high? Couldn't this be the reason?  Isn't that why you add salt to the tank if there aren't any scaleless fish?  And if nitrAtes are high - would you not just do daily partial water changes until nitrites are zero?

Fish - even larger fish like goldfish - can die during cycling.  I assume its just as hard on small fish.

The salt is used to help the burn from the nitrite on the gills if I remember correctly.  Water changes along with minimal feeeding are the best way IMO.  You need to feed them of course so they can poop to help it cycle but you don't want to much to fast.  Another way to speed it up would be to get some cycled media from someone to speed things up.

[mseguin]

Um..Nitrates are much less toxic than Nitrites.

[KLKelly]

quick google search:

"Symptoms of nitrite poisoning include gasping and rapid gill movements, which could be mistaken for a shortage of oxygen. In extreme cases, fish can actually die of suffocation because nitrite binds to the oxygen-carrying component (haemoglobin) in the blood."

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling2.htm

[beowulf]

quick google search:

"Symptoms of nitrite poisoning include gasping and rapid gill movements, which could be mistaken for a shortage of oxygen. In extreme cases, fish can actually die of suffocation because nitrite binds to the oxygen-carrying component (haemoglobin) in the blood."

http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling2.htm

Sounds right.

[mseguin]

and since Nitrite is an ion, the salt binds it and makes it less harmful for the fish

[beowulf]

and since Nitrite is an ion, the salt binds it and makes it less harmful for the fish

Thought I had heard that but was not sure.  It also helps the wound though right?  I had read that on aquahobby.com or something like that.

[fischkopp]

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"Symptoms of nitrite poisoning include gasping and rapid gill movements, which could be mistaken for a shortage of oxygen. In extreme cases, fish can actually die of suffocation because nitrite binds to the oxygen-carrying component (haemoglobin) in the blood."

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and since Nitrite is an ion, the salt binds it and makes it less harmful for the fish

all makes sense now! its a very informative discussion for me!

[dan2x38]

how many fsh? what type? what size a tank? what type of filter? what are your other readings NH3 & pH especially...

[neon]

Its a 54 gallon bowfront.  I have 2 bolivian rams, 5 cardinals, 10 harliquin rasboras, 1 clown pleco, 1 small bristlenose pleco, 3 columbian tetras, 3 saes, 3 gold tetras. God, I hope everything is ok when I get home.  I'll test the water again when I get home and do another water change if necessary.  I have a eihem canister filter.  I guess I should touch anything at all in the filter for a while either.

[dan2x38]

Great filter you'll not need any maintenance on that for some time. Stay on top of things: testing, not over feeding, water changes, some salt, etc... do not add salt staright in... with a water change dissolve the salt you'll use in the water you are adding then pour in a bit at a time... with all those fish they will need some relieve and salt will help for sure... that is a heavy bio-load to start a tank with... usually you only start with a few hardy fish when readings are on track then a week or several days add a few more... keep posting readings!

[beowulf]

That is a lot of fish for such a young tank.  For sure keep up the water changes and if you can get some used media it would be best.

[dan2x38]

I already loaned out my spare filter that was cycled now using it another tank I started. I could loan a couple decorations from established tanks. The decorations do carry the benifical bacteria it will help some but not as good as filter media. Every little bit will help with all those fish you need to get the cycle moving. Stay on top of the water changes and get some salt in there.