turtle facts and fallacy

[insl8r]

If they are red eared sliders a 10 gallon will not last too long. THese turtles gow to a size of approx. 12", even larger for the females. I had two(only one now as one escaped somehow) and to give them enough room to swim as well as a dry area I have a 4'x2'x16" enclosure built. Mine is the setup that jimskoi was speaking about. Also these turtles live a LONG time. My turtle and his enclosure is for sale, he is approx 4" and a year and a half old.

[littlelil]

yep, i know. But i already have the 10 gal, and like i said, it's only for 1 year. I don't think they'll outgrow it by then  and they be in a large pond in the hot summer months!

[estuary]

they grow fast my turtles grew to 6" in 6 months

[Mettle]

If you truly have the welfare of the animal in mind you would not be purchasing from a shady store such as the one you mentioned with questionable selling proactices and possibly too-good-to-be-true prices. In addition, you wouldn't be condeming the turtle to life in a 10 gallon tank for a year's time.

You'll also need more than just a heat lamp for it. Turtles need UVB lighting as well that is not provided by your standard heat lamp. You'll need to go mercury vapor or add fluorescent lighting to the tank.

Google 'red ear slider care sheet' and you will get a lot of info.

Good luck and I hope you make the right decision and postpone the purchase of a turtle until you're in a situation to adequately care for it.

[littlelil]

that's cool. yeah, i might consider throwing them in my spare 20 g then after the summer. i didn't know they grow so fast! I had already google'd those terms and got the about.com care sheet on them. It's got most of the information a beginner should know about RESs, including their UVA/UVB lighting

I don't believe the prices are too-good-to-be-true. I believe that RESs are sold by breeders for really cheap and that Pet World is making a whooooooooooooole lot of profit off them. I dont' like Pet World and i especially don't like how they refuse to change the names of their fish that they have mislabelled after I kindly point out their mistakeS.

[Shouganai]

The store in question in Markham sells many illegally-smuggled in species which are on the IUCN's red list or CITES restricted, such as the Fly River turtle.  People (including myself), have been trying to get that store shut down for a long time.  The RES are cheap because they've been illegally smuggled into the country from an operation either in Asia or the USA.  RES are generally a bit more expensive in this country now due to the red tape involved with bringing them into the country, and the legality surrounding breeding new specimens in this country.  Its also a heck of a lot easier/cheaper to get them in the states because they practice the 'captive hatched' method where gravid females are taken from the wild to produce their eggs in captivity.  The climate in the Southern US is also much more conducive to running a large outdoor turtle farm fro meat and the pet industry.

I have to echo what Mettle said.. PLEASE don't get an RES if you're not prepared to give it a big enough tank.  These poor creatures are right up there with Iguanas as far as getting the short end of the stick when it comes to proper care in captivity.  I wish it was still illegal for pet stores in this city to sell them.. it really hurts my heart when I see them for sale nowadays.

[beowulf]

What store is this?  I might be able to look into this if they are illegally importing animals, especially CITES or CFIA regulated ones.

[babblefish1960]

What store is this?  I might be able to look into this if they are illegally importing animals, especially CITES or CFIA regulated ones.

I don't know why I didn't think of you or Nelson, this is your area of business.

quote " They are sold at a chinese mall in Toronto called Market Village http://www.marketvillage.net/ next to Pacific Mall in Markham. The store is called Lucky Aquarium.

I just called them and they are $10, not $6, so my mistake (inflation, i guess, since the last time I was there)

I feel bad for getting them there and giving them business becuase they are one of those stores that push their turtle sales by saying that turtles are extremely low-maintenance and require nothing but a small fish bowl and some dry food.... (i was a victim of this when I was very young, and my turtles didn't last for more than a month!  Cry) but I cannot afford to pay 4x more PER turtle here in Ottawa. ... and I hate pet world.

If anyone wants a turtle, I will be picking some up sometime in the next few weeks.

Pick up in Nepean. PM me if interested. " unquote


Go get 'em tiger!

[Shouganai]

The store in question is in a group of malls known for illegal activity of all sorts.. I used to go there quite frequently when I was younger, but when this pet store moved in I quit going out of disgust.. as if the shark fins and illegally gathered/smuggled fossils for sale in the other stores weren't bad enough.

I've not been in the store in some time, so I can't attest for whether or not they've changed recently, but theres been at least one thread on RC about this place, and a BIG question of the legality of not just their turtles, but their fish (arowanas, etc).  One thing everyone says though, is that they keep the animals very well- which is a bit of a relief I suppose.

I know Fly River Turtles are one spp. that people have purchased from there, and they're of Australian/PNG origin, which means completely banned from export from Australia, and restricted in PNG and Indonesia by CITES II.  I'd really like to get a chance to go down there again and ask to see the paperwork for the animals he is selling, because many of the species require CITES permits.  According to a document I just read on the IUCN website, the Fly River Turtle is banned from export by all nations where it is native, regardless of its CITES status.

At any rate, there is some strange legality to reselling turtles imported into Canada, as in, its not legal.  Many stores/resellers will claim loopholes, and it can be nary impossible to prove the origin of a turtle without the papers, but really only turtles bred/produced in Canada by animals grandfathered in when the new legislation came into place are allowed to be resold.  One can import non-restricted species for personal use (be it hobby or meat), but otherwise its a very muddy lagoon of legality out there, and people seem to love debating it to try and find loopholes.

[davemaria]

I have recently purchased a slider in Ottawa at pet world for $40.00. I have wanted one since I was small and was aware of their needs and how they grow. It currently is only 1.5" small am am picking up a 55g tank within the next couple weeks. After reading the posts above about the store in T.O yes its only $10.00 but my concern now is legallity and health of turtle. If the ones in town are healthy and legal im ok paying $40.00. Im considering getting one for $10.00 should I reconsider now?

I have read online though, about Salmonilla and it has been an issue in the 70s, 80s that parents would buy them for kids without knowing the sizes they get and the dangers of Salmonilla with kids playing with turtles than going and eating or puting their hands in their mouth. I have kids and they are not phyically able to get access to the turtle, the tanks water is 100% changed every 2 days by myself and it is fed in a separate tank at least once a day.

after a certain amount of time if it looks too big for the 55g tank i will be upgrading to a larger size.

pls give thoughts and from experienced RES owners give your setups and age of turtles. The interent is saying too many different setups and tank sizes...

thanks

[estuary]

I have recently purchased a slider in Ottawa at pet world for $40.00. I have wanted one since I was small and was aware of their needs and how they grow. It currently is only 1.5" small am am picking up a 55g tank within the next couple weeks. After reading the posts above about the store in T.O yes its only $10.00 but my concern now is legallity and health of turtle. If the ones in town are healthy and legal im ok paying $40.00. Im considering getting one for $10.00 should I reconsider now?

I have read online though, about Salmonilla and it has been an issue in the 70s, 80s that parents would buy them for kids without knowing the sizes they get and the dangers of Salmonilla with kids playing with turtles than going and eating or puting their hands in their mouth. I have kids and they are not phyically able to get access to the turtle, the tanks water is 100% changed every 2 days by myself and it is fed in a separate tank at least once a day.

after a certain amount of time if it looks too big for the 55g tank i will be upgrading to a larger size.

pls give thoughts and from experienced RES owners give your setups and age of turtles. The interent is saying too many different setups and tank sizes...

thanks

get a 40g breeder if possibe 55 to narrow or something 18" wide 65 or 75g

[estuary]

If they are red eared sliders a 10 gallon will not last too long. THese turtles gow to a size of approx. 12", even larger for the females. I had two(only one now as one escaped somehow) and to give them enough room to swim as well as a dry area I have a 4'x2'x16" enclosure built. Mine is the setup that jimskoi was speaking about. Also these turtles live a LONG time. My turtle and his enclosure is for sale, he is approx 4" and a year and a half old.

get pics im intrested

[Fishnut]

I know little turtles are cute, but PLEASE DON'T GET ONE!!!!!!!! Pet shops that sell these creatures are making a killing off suckers who see something and buy it on impulse because likely these people haven't got a clue as to how to care for it and they'll be back in for another when they kill the first one.  It ticks me off to no end!!!!  Why else would these stores continue to sell them?  $10 is an EXTREMELY low price for these little creatures.

You were told that these turtles can grow 6" in 6 months, yet you are still wanting put the poor thing in a 10 gallon now and a 20 gallon after the summer?     How would you like to go from living in a house the size of a walk in closet (that you can't get out of) to living in a small bedroom (that you also cant get out of) when you grow?  Not so nice is it?  Take the advice of the people who are telling you to get a LARGE (50 gal +) tank. 

I have posted information about turtles here before.  I rescued over a dozen turtles who were purchased by people who had no clue and didn't care until the turtle(s) were causing more work than the owner was willing to put in.  Some died because they were so poorly cared for and some had weird shells, also because of their poor care.  Only a few were actually healthy when I got them.

It's unfortunate that a large number of people in this world don't think of the creature's point of view.  They want the creature, so since they have the money and some microscopic idea of what it's about, they get it.  Some research after the fact, but can't accommodate it, but usually that's the end of their consideration and the beginning of the creatures' forced suffering.  If it dies and was cheep, oh well, get another one.  If it survives and isn't so fun anymore, ditch it and let someone who truly cares for the creature clean up the mess.  This is not just in the case for turtles but dogs, cats, fish, birds...basically every pet there is.  My parrot was a rescue.  He was a complete wreck because his idiotic owners hadn't got a clue and decided that since they couldn't "tame" him, it was fun to torment the bird that they messed up.  Thank goodness I got him when I did.

Littlelil, I'm glad you're here asking questions about your turtle.  If you intend to buy this turtle, here is what you NEED:

You might as well invest in his permanent home now.  You'll have him for the next 25 - 30 years.  Get a tank that has a lot of floor space.  I think the Hagen 55 gallon is good.  It measures something like 36" x 18" on the base.  That's even a bit small, but it can work if the turtle is in a pond all summer.  IF you can afford to, go bigger.  Also, buy yourself a very good, submersible filter, preferably with one of those spray wands so your little turtle won't get swooshed around the tank.  Your turtle is really dirty (dirty turtle tanks is where people have been catching salmonella), so you'll need something more powerful than what is normally recommended for a tank that size.  Don't get a heater.  The turtle will slow down in the winter, but let him.  It's healthy and natural for them to hibernate a bit and not eat much.  Also, make sure you feed him a good quality food, not the cheepest brand you can find.  Cheep in price is cheep in quality and your turtle doesn't need nutritional deficiencies.  Feed him only once a day.  They're pigs and mine used to paddle at the front of the tank begging for food.  Once a day is ok...you're saving him the trouble of catching his meal.  As for the lighting, there are some great lamps on the market.  Choose a heat lamp with a ceramic or porcelain socket.  Also, get the best UVA and UVB bulb you can find.  This is almost more important than the heat bulb.  As for heat, just get a small one for now.  You don't want to have roast turtle.  The surface the turtle climbs out of the water on should be fairly smooth when they're tiny.  The shells are still soft compared to the adult and a scratch is an opening to all sorts of problems.

I hope this helps.  Please do what's best for your turtle, not your wallet/space/whatever.

[babblefish1960]

Like a few other comments in this thread by Shouganai and Mettle, to name a few, this was a very well constructed and thoroughly well presented perspective fishnut, I see very sound advice that really considers the welfare of the long lived turtle in question.

Good posts, the lot of you.

[Fishnut]

Thanks.  I used to work in pet shops.  I can't even stand shopping in them any more because I can't stand most pet owners.  It's heart breaking.  Most of them are insensitive, selfish and blind to how they are torturing dependent creatures that THEY chose!  Clearly there are some pet owners here who are fantastic though. 

When I read something like this thread I feel compelled to tell people that they're not making a wise choice in a pet and what to do if they're determined to have that pet.  I really hope Little lil takes my post to heart.

[davemaria]

Just too keep this topic alive, maybe a little off topic but what are good fish to go along with a turtle and shallow water.

thanks

[estuary]

no fish turtles eat fish

[Roland]

The Ottawa Reptile and Amphibian Association used to collect RES for shipment back to South Carolina via Toronto. The Port Credit Pet Center ran the program. The charge to people was $25.00/turtle. The program was eventually canned as it ended up costing to much. The conditions the turtles traveled in wasn't first class.

I'd hate to think how many RES just get released into the Ottawa river. Anyone ever seen one there?

[davemaria]

i saw a rather large one at Andrew hayden park.

[Shouganai]

One thing is for sure, if you see a red eared slider in the wild here, DO SOMETHING.  Either remove it or arrange to have it destroyed.  They are a very aggressive species and released ones do alright in our local ecosystems, out competing some of our rarer dwindling turtle species.  Heck, I've heard anecdotally that they'll give the painteds a run for their money.

I've read that they may not be able to breed successfully this far North, but they still will compete for food, basking spots, and they'll do their best to take over nesting grounds!