Gill flukes treatment

[fischkopp]

I am quite sure that some of my apistos (WC bitaeniata, have them only for two days) have gill flukes. I lost two already and it happend very quickly, within 24 hours or less. I could see their gills were (bloody) red, and in the end they were falling on the side rather than swimming straight.

I also think that maybe one or two more are affected.
The water is fine, made a 25% water change yesterday.

I did some research here and in the web and found a few possible ways to treat this disease / parasite:
1. Potassium permanganate
2. Formaldehyde based products ("Kordons Formalin 3" ?)
3. Hydroperoxyde
4. "Life Bearer"
5. Acriflavin based product
6. Flubanol
7. bath in salt water

Beside these medications its generally suggested to keep the temperature on the lower end, to maybe add some salt, do lots of water changes up to 75% to get red of the parasite in the water, minimize any kind of stress and to optimize the diet for the fish (i decided on very little frozen brine shrimps or bloodworms for a while).

My questions now is, which of these (or other) medications in which concentration may be the most successfull way to eradicate gill flukes from the tank?

Robert

[BigDaddy]

Red gills can be a sign of flukes.. but ammonia, nitrite and iron-oxidation can also cause that condition as well.

That being said, when I have treated my discus for flukes, I have used Formalin with good results.  A good safety precaution with formalin is to increase aeration in the tank as you dose.  1 cc per 10 gallons is the normal dosage for Formalin.

[fischkopp]

Thanx for your reply BD!

Ammonia and nitrite levels are ok. But I am not sure about iron-oxidation. The tank setup is quite new and i used Florite as substrate. Can this cause higher iron concentrations in the water. How does iron-oxidation harm the fish, will it kill it too?

Where did you get Formalin? Can I get it somewhere in LFS?

[BigDaddy]

Flourite will not raise iron levels to the point of toxicity.  Either natural sources or manually adding iron would.

I got some Formalin from another OVAS member.  However, many people using formalin for discus do seem to swear by the Kordon product.

[KLKelly]

In case it is flukes .... On the goldfish and aquarium board (GAB) some of the members take their fish to aquatic vets.  Dr. Helen Roberts in NY recommends using prazi.  Through her practice she has found that flukes survive multiple treatments.  The GAB board now goes on her recommendations below. 

    * Remove carbon.
    * Add 2.5 milligrams per liter of water.
    * If you are using the powdered version, it is difficult to dissolve. Predissolve in tank water by shaking it up in a small container.
    * Dosing
      Day 1 -- remove carbon, perform water change with vacuuming, and add Prazi to tank
      Day 2 -- add Prazi
      Day 3 -- do nothing
      Day 4 -- do nothing
      Day 5 -- do nothing
      Day 6 -- add Prazi
      Day 7 -- add Prazi
      Day 8 -- normal partial water change with vacuuming
      Day 14 - normal partial water change, then add prazi
      Day 21 - normal partial water change, then add prazi
      Day 28 - normal partial water change, then add prazi
      Day 35 - normal partial water change, add carbon, treatment is complete

I have had to treat for flukes - my fish demonstrated gill fluffing/chattering and yawning and had tattered gills.

I wonder if it was a secondary infection/bacteria or another cause if you lost two so closely together.

[squeeker]

I use prazi as well, but with a slightly different dosing schedule than KLKelly:

Day 1:  add Prazi
Day 2:  nothing
Day 3:  nothing
Day 4:  add Prazi
Day 5:  nothing
Day 6:  nothing
Day 7:  add Prazi
Day 8:  nothing
Day 9:  water change

[fischkopp]

Thanx for your comments, KLKelly and squeeker. I just went to a LFS and they suggested PraziPro to me too. So i bought it and googled it: seems like many people have great success with this medication.

I just did a 75% WC and added the first dose of PraziPro (as suggested 5ml/20gal). Everything looks fine for now. I will continue with the second dose at day 4 as the package note recommends no shorter periods.

I am wondering about your suggested WC cycles though: I would assume to perform a WC right before adding the second and third dose. Would there be anything wrong with that?

[BigDaddy]

From the differing websites I've been on, it seems every one has a magic dosage for Prazi.  I've always just used the manufacturer's recommendations and had no issues.

[KLKelly]

My flukes showed up on a microscope so I hear if you see some you have lots!

I didn't do a water change the first week at all.  All my fish came through just fine and I've quarantined two separate goldfish with this dosing schedule too and all is well.

Just a reminder to disinfect your gravel vac/tools or you recontaminate the tank.

Dr. Roberts has said for flukes the recommended dosing schedule this is not enough.  This was seen in follow up visits with her aquatic patients and follow up scrapes/gill snips.  She was very surprised at how resiliant they were.  I guess flukes can sometimes hide in slime on the gills or something like that if its a bad infestation.  I can see if I can find the think-tank thread on GAB where this was debated.  In the case of my goldfish I think that flukes opened my guys up to secondary bacterial infections... one goldfish actually had gill erosion.

[BigDaddy]

My flukes showed up on a microscope so I hear if you see some you have lots!

Actually... a fish having some flukes is relatively normal.  However, if the fish is stressed or has some other issues, it can cause the fluke infestation to increase considerably.